Cryolite Mining, NATO Threats & Wins for (Industry) Workers: LWID S3E4

Hot on the heels of the Greenland debate, the new DR documentary on cryolite extraction is adding fuel to an already raging fire. Danish intelligence is sounding the alarm on a potential Russian offensive with weakening NATO ties. Industry workers secured some wins in a new agreement that saw increase in wages, as well as more flexibility in leave allowance and overtime compensation. Tune in to Arun, who is back at the helm this week to discuss these top news with our 2nd resident Irish co-host, Katie.

Dive right in:

1. The saga of Greenland's White Gold (03:35)
2. The Russian red alert - should we be concerned? (16:25)
3. Updated collective agreement for industry workers (25:39)
4. Thoughts about cultural and family ties (28:00)

In this episode:

Cohosts: 

• Arun  
• Katie - https://www.linkedin.com/in/katherineeburns/

Audio Editor: 

• Cecilia - https://www.linkedin.com/in/ceciliagfoster/

Transcript Editor: 

• Marta - https://www.linkedin.com/in/marta-villalon-trigueros-a3777714b/

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Chapters

• 3:35 Greenland's White Gold
• 16:25 The Russian red alert
• 26:30 Updated collective agreement for industry workers
• 28:51 Thoughts about cultural and family ties

Transcript

Arun:

Foreign. Hello, everyone. Welcome to Last Week in Denmark. This is season three, episode number four, and my name is Arun and I am here with Katie. Katie, welcome to the show.

Katie:

Hi. Thanks for having me.

Arun:

So, Katie, this is your first-ever podcast with Last Week in Denmark. So how do you feel?

Katie:

I am excited, deeply nervous. But I'm glad you're here. I'm glad we're doing it together. How are you doing?

Arun:

I'm. I was a bit nervous as well because it's been quite some time since I actually did a podcast, especially with the last season. I wasn't sure if I would continue, but I managed to pull up my sleeve, and I said, I'm gonna do it. So, yes, it took me some time to reconsider, but I am super excited for this season three. And at the same time, I had a good week, to be honest. So I'm actually with fresh perspectives and. Yeah, up for it for the conversation that you'll have in having today. So what was your opinion and thought process before signing up for this podcast?

Katie:

I think I really appreciate the newsletter. I think as an international, it can be very difficult or just very easy to ignore the news just because it's typically all in Danish, and kind of finding the information you need in English, and then translating every webpage, and then sometimes the translations aren't great. For example, jeans always come out as cowboy pants, which makes everything funnier, actually. So I think it's just something I was really. I really appreciated it. And then there was obviously the call for a podcast, guest hosts. And yeah, it's been really interesting so far. It's also nice that we get a sneak peek into what's coming up in the upcoming newsletter. So I like that kind of being in the know.

Arun:

Yeah, yeah. The thing that actually excites me the most about the Last Week in Denmark is that I think they are so consistent in covering up a lot of news from different news articles and making it every week. That's a commitment to another level, which I should actually learn. And I've been following the work since the whole year, and I signed up like you signed up, this year? I signed up last year and wanted to venture with Narciss and his team. So I had a similar kind of experience like you had. So, yeah. So good so far.

Katie:

Yeah, all good. Should we dive into this week's episode?

Arun:

Yes, yes. Up and running. Ready? So today we will be discussing about three major topics. One, with the recent documentary about cryolite mining, which has reignited tensions between Denmark and Greenland. And before we dive deep in. I will also discuss the next two topics, which is Denmark's intelligence agency's wants Russia and could threaten NATO, but experts question the alarm. The last topic would be the new collective agreement for industry workers, boosting wages and parental leaves, and work flexibility. So these are the three topics we would dive in. So let's start with the first one.

Katie:

Where does the fun begin? There are a couple of fun topics in here, but yeah, the Dayr documentary.

Arun:

So the documentary about the recent cryolite mining has actually sparked a lot of issues within the Danish media outlet, and that led to a lot of conversations fuming between political parties and Greenland. Greenland leaders. My take with this article, I haven't gone through the entire documentary myself, but seen from a past colonized country. I kind of find this conversation so relevant, as a person who was from the colonizing part, colonized part. My perspective is that it doesn't really matter to talk about what happened when colonies tried to, you know, use resources from their native lands. Because probably the part of colonization involves these trade-offs, right? And if you go back to like 200 years ago, when the Britishers or the East India Company came to India, we had similar stories, quite similar to what is happening right now in Greenland. So I'm just talking from my own experience with my own homeland, but it seems to me that this has been gaining traction because Greenland wants independence, and they use this as a tool or mechanism to kind of, you know, voice out and bring in a lot of, maybe buy in more supporters. So I don't really buy, in my opinion. What do you think?

Katie:

Do you know what I think just lately, poor Greenland, they're just trying to get by, and Donald Trump is coming in from the left trying to buy them. And then someone makes a documentary about cryolite, which, honestly, I had never heard of until I got this email that this is what was coming up today. But I think, I think it is important to discuss it particularly. Greenland isn't independent now. I think they have wanted their independence for quite some time. And I do think it is the nature of a colonizer to kind of brush over, you know, oh, we just murdered these people, or we just took all this money, and I suppose just to kind of take a step back and talk about what, what is cryolite? So it is something that has been very critical in history. Basically: aluminium. It was something that was very, very difficult to use. And cryolite made it very easy and very cheap to make things out of it, which became super duper critical in World War II when making planes, which was, you know, kind of the critical change when we got into World War II. And what's probably more important is that the only place you can find a large amount of it is Greenland. So it is a huge deal that Denmark found this, capitalized on it. It was mined by Danish workers who then paid Danish taxes, and it was then sold by Denmark for, I think it was an estimated, 400 billion DKK. Now, I did ask my partner about this, and she kind of watches more documentaries and reads more news. She is Danish. She's kind of my go-to. And I'm like, what do you think is going on over here? And she did say there is a lot of criticism about the documentary, kind of throwing out facts and figures, and, you know, where is the basis for it? Like you're saying, is this a reliable source, or is it just someone kind of capitalizing a little bit and kind of making it more dramatic to make the documentary a bit more sensationalist?

Arun:

Exactly.

Katie:

So I think someone did come back and say, "No, no, no, it was only about 15 billion DKK", which I think was the wrong answer. I don't know why they thought that would be a convincing argument. But at the same time, I do see what you're saying in the sense that this is something that was done, you know, it ended in the 1980s. So it is like, okay, if Greenland is just noticing it now, when Denmark makes a documentary, has it really affected them? Do they really have the right to kind of stand up and say, look what's going on here? But I think the Prime Minister does have some valid questions, like, what would Denmark have been without that bump in income and jobs? I think it's a very valid question. And then I think they're kind of in a bit of a tornado. Greenland, as they said. Mr. Trump, always very scary. And then all the ongoing things with Denmark and kind of the world slowly learning kind of what happened between Denmark and Greenland. You know, I think as a country and a country that wants independence, who can Greenland trust? Who is looking out for their best interests? Because if you look at this example, Denmark didn't share much of this cryolite industry with Greenland, when obviously they could have used that to get independence. But then you have Donald Trump, who I don't think cares about anybody but himself and his own hair. So where do they look for support? You know, so at the end of the day, I'm just "oh Greenland".

Arun:

The thing with the trade-off is that what concerns me the most with a country like Greenland, with a population close to 50.000 to 60.000. I don't know if it's easier for them to defend themselves if this trade-off has to happen. And there are a lot of eyes attracting towards potential mining opportunities in Greenland. And now we saw the cryolite thing. But there could be many more than the next gold are probably more precious than what we consider precious at the moment which could be bauxite or lithium ion or something, right? And, as an international in Denmark, I start to concern, well, if I were to pick a side, I would choose not to go with the U.S. American interest.

Katie:

Because no, I don't think anyone should side with the US right now.

Arun:

For them, their notion towards coming and buying Greenland is purely kind of annexed to their states and then try to, you know, exploit the natural resources that Greenland could have and not, not to have, you know, sovereignty for a nation that is seeking independence. And that is also the same intention for other countries like China and Russia, who wants to trade with Greenland. So Greenland sees a huge opportunity and they wanted to actually kind of, you know what, this is the time we will go all in and then bring all evidences. So we kind of. They want independence. Fair, fair enough. But is it the right time and are they. Are they capable enough to defend themselves? Because country like, let's say military power supremacy could easily annex it. I don't think they're waiting for the right time I would assume just to make this happen.

Katie:

So yeah, very vulnerable position to be in in the sense of everyone else can see your value I think as well kind of just talking about the fact that Greenland is so small. And as you say they. There's such a huge, it's like a huge land mass and they don't know what precious things are hiding in that land. I often think about this in Ireland. We obviously have like the Republic of Ireland and then Northern Ireland, and often people like, "Oh, do you ever think there would be a united Ireland?" And kind of. Some people see that as the perfect picture. But realistically, Northern Ireland is a bit of an economical hole. So it would be a huge force, financial burden to take Northern Ireland into the Republic and reabsorb it. So there's kind of all these economical factors of like okay, let's say, you know, Greenland finds all these natural resources. Do they have the manpower and the training, and the education to do something with it? And then if they do have that to extract it, whatever it is from the earth. Do they have the means to sell it globally to whoever? And do we have the intelligence to know who's okay to sell to, please? Not the Russians, but like where can those go? How do we do that responsibly, but also how do we make sure Greenland is getting a fair shot? Have they managed this in the past? I really don't know enough. But I just worry about Greenland, basically in general.

Arun:

I have a lot of these conversations with my colleagues as well. I was surprised to see the majority of the Danish lean towards. Yeah, it would be nice to give them independence because I don't think annexing them or having them part of Denmark adds any value. But historically, that has not been the case. 400 billion is a lot of money, and the trade-off with mining is a huge business, and there could be potentially more businesses and like let's say, let's compare with Norway, right? Norway has huge natural oil reserves, so they are filthy rich compared to a lot of other Scandinavian countries in my opinion. And Denmark mainly depends on manpower, and the recent developments with what we call life sciences innovation and energy conservation production, right ? And as a person coming from a developing nation, I see the land as a huge asset, huge value, and how we could incentivize people to go and work in Greenland. I was wondering what if we send all the people who want to ambitious people to go and do mining projects in Greenland and incentivize them, and cut off the taxes. A lot of people will go to do business there. That's how I see it as a guy from another country is to say: "Hey, there is a huge business opportunity," and if incentivized, right. People could actually make a value, and that's also going to incentivize the locals, but people don't agree with me. They say they go with this "enter loan". I don't know if you know the word "enter loan". It's like a feeling where if you're ambitious, you should probably go to America. It's people, driven by people values, and they don't, they don't really feel like we could push ourselves to go and conquer or be, you know, build businesses and make more profits and stuff. But I was shocked when a person like person you know put subvers on, saying "Oh, that's their decision". They have to live by that. But, but also, there are a lot of mixed opinions. I'm not the only one who's saying.

Katie:

But yeah, I think it's the trouble as well. It's like none of us are from Greenland. We don't know what the reality is of being someone from Greenland, and the challenges or anything that comes with that. So it's very easy for us to be. I mean, I would be on your side, though. I think sometimes I can be a capitalist cog in a machine. But at the same time, like, businesses bring money. Money brings infrastructure that would bring benefits to the community of Greenland. And I do feel like that's kind of the struggle with this topic in the sense of like, at the end of the day, what's going to benefit the Greenlandic people more? And it is. There's not really someone to trust because it does come down to like money. Who's going to pay the most? What's going to happen there? But as shiny and happy as that topic is, should we move on to the second one?

Arun:

Yeah, absolutely. But before, before moving on, I had one more thing to talk about, and I like this too. How long have you been in Denmark so far?

Katie:

Me?

Arun:

Yeah.

Katie:

Three years. I think it was three years in. I mean, I know it was three years. It was three years in October.

Arun:

I've been in Aarhus, you know. You know there is an exam called Milburgh Scapes Pover. It's for active citizenship in Denmark. And there used to be. We used to have a lot of questions about Greenland and stuff. The very reason that America pushes saying a strategic move to annex and have our border secure is a myth. Because Vinland already has a U.S. military base. It's called Thule, and they have historically kept it for many years. NATO was formed, and that has already been defending borders. So, anyone who says that this is a strategic move to, you know, kind of protect NATO, I don't think it's true because they do have a base just like the way they have in many other NATO countries. And that's an add-on point from people who actually know the geopolitical things that we have to read this, and you have to kind of. It's a mandatory thing if you go and apply for active citizenship in the country. So that's a fact. Yeah. Okay, that's it. Let's move on to the other topic which is sort of being in the news for quite some time. I think I've read this article. It's a kind of similar article half a year ago when the Ukraine war was at its peak, I would say. And it has resurfaced, I assume. And that is Denmark's Big Red warning. Denmark's Military intelligence kind of, you know, puts, puts in an alarm saying Russia could engage in a regional war against NATO countries, and it sees the alliance as weak or divided. So, probably there could be a time when we might have some issues or a full-scale war. Probably. I don't know how realistic it is, but let's talk, let's talk about facts here. Since nobody has a clue how many soldiers were engaged in the war with Ukraine. Some say at least it's not a fact, in my opinion. Some say that the estimated suggested people who lost their lives are 800,000 soldiers. I don't know if it's actually true. And the economy of Russia is under strain, which is also something that I don't agree with. But I do understand there's a lot of losses from both sides, both from NATO and also in Russia. But does it really weaken our, does it really weaken the integrity of NATO, and does it actually create another war? I don't, I don't know. I don't really think so, in my opinion. What do you think?

Katie:

Yeah, I think the same as you. It was kind of going through the article and expecting to see lots of scary facts and reasons why I should be afraid. So I think it was. Denmark's intelligence agency warns Russia could threaten NATO within six months. But experts question the alarm. And I think that sentence alone made me kind of be like, well, who are the experts? If one expert is saying this is going to happen, the other one is like, "Nah, chill, it's not a big deal, don't worry". I'm like, which, who? I know which one I would rather listen to. But really, I think, you know, as you say, like in terms of the, there's a lot of, we estimate this or we think this is happening in Russia. It's like we have no idea what's going on. Russia is a black box at the moment. So it is this kind of, what is the point of this article? Is almost what I would say. And I think it is interesting to kind of be like, well, Denmark's intelligence agency says this, and it is quite a stark warning. It's kind of, you know, we could be in a full-scale war in Europe in five years if the US doesn't intervene. And obviously everyone's afraid of the US as we've, it's come up several times, even though we haven't been talking that long. But it's obviously the hot topic at the moment. So, you know, you read that and you're like, oh, okay, something terrible is going to happen. But then defense analysts are like, right, listen, if that's going to happen, these three things need to happen as well, which is Europe stops investing in defense. Which I feel like every second article in the news, anywhere that you read, is about different European countries investing in defense. I think there was even something recently that we might have to work more so we get more war taxes. So, like, I don't see that happening ever, particularly with everyone so afraid of everything. And then the idea that NATO is going to fall apart, it's like, okay, it's not going to fall apart overnight, maybe over a longer period of time, is it? Yeah, it's kind of like this. This took a long time to build up. I'm sure no one's just like, God will be stuck. Who would bother? And then the other thing was the US Stays on the sidelines. And while the US is quite unpredictable right now, I feel like Donald Trump will find several other things he needs to do that are quite ridiculous, which will take his attention away. So it is, you know, these three major things need to happen for us to kind of consider that Russia is going to escalate things, so much so that we'll have a full-scale war in five years. So I think it's, it's a little bit like, why is this article here? Why are they trying to scare us? Are they trying to inform us? Is it to make sure we don't get complacent? Because I am definitely very happy to ignore everything about the idea of an impending war, but at the same time, I'm reading this, and I'm like, what do I do with this information? But also, if there is an impending war, what can I, as an individual human being who has to get up on Monday and go to work and type at my little desk and answer my little emails, like, what am I meant to do with this information? So I think it poses the question, why do we have these warnings like, I have some water in my basement, should I get more? Will that make me feel better about war? I don't think so.

Arun:

It's just amplifying the public's fear. And the thing that I could raise some awareness about is the thing is NATO is never going to fall apart if the moment, let's say Europe stops investing in defense. Right. I don't think it will directly conflict the NATO's alliance because I think the concept of incentivizing or the incentives actually have a cycle. So NATO needs an influx of money and US is a major player. So they can't just sit on the sidelines and say, okay, we are not getting any investments. Let's back up. I don't think that is going to ever happen. There's a lot of private entities that are so well-connected. So that is not on the cards. What could be a hypothesis here, which is also interesting, is that if one or two countries, let's say, pull out, I don't think it's going to happen. But if it happens, what if it happens, then there's a situation where Russia could annex more borders. That is the challenge. That is a tricky part. I don't know if there could be a situation where some of the Eastern European countries could, could kind of potentially be like, okay, you know what, guys, I'm done. And that could be a question. There are already a lot of border dispute issues between the East and the West of Europe. And this could, this could really threaten the NATO alliances in a, in a longer, longer in, in the future. But, but I don't, I don't really see it happening. But that is a hypothesis or on the cards. But that still doesn't equal. Will equate to the concerns that we should have right now. Because, of course, it could affect inflation. Maybe there could be inflation to a certain degree. But like you said, it doesn't, it doesn't. It doesn't affect me as long as I'm concerned. When I wake up Monday morning, I'm concerned about answering my emails like you mentioned. And then the weather, if it snows, I probably have to switch transport. And that's my biggest fear right now because I have to walk a kilometer.

Katie:

I would love a bit of snow, though.

Arun:

Yeah. Talking about snow today, it was actually quite snowy the whole day in Copenhagen. Is it the same in Aarhus? How was the weather in Aarhus?

Katie:

It's cold and there was kind of. There were like little hopeful flutterings of snow, I would say, but nothing stuck. So, no winter magic just yet. But I, it was nice to see. I think we've had. It's been weirdly warm lately, so I was kind of happy to have some solid cold and potential snow for a little bit.

Arun:

Okay.

Katie:

And I can work remotely, so you know, it'll be fine. 

Arun:

Yeah. So summarize this whole conversation. What I understand is that I think the ordinary citizens probably are probably reading this article could be concerned. It is just basically amplifying the fear of the public doesn't actually give any awareness to educate people. And the facts and figures are not. It's our indicative purposes. Right. And I don't think it's. It's figurative.

Katie:

Yeah.

Arun:

And just to add two more points, Russia is actually getting a good deal with the Asian countries, for example, they made a really good deal with Iran, China and India. And they're making different options to kind of, you know, make it easy for them to trade. So, what the media that we see or consume in Europe may be leading towards what they want Europeans to know. So we can't just take one side of one sided approach. Otherwise, how do you think Russia gets a lot of arms and ammunition and military firepower? There are a lot of these documentaries being published on YouTube videos that talk about how Russia is financing this war. And that's interesting because when I see other media outlets talking about a different angle, maybe the facts that we see from a European news outlet could not be solely trusted or consumed. So we have to think from other outlets and say what the left and right have to say about it. So that's how I see it at least.

Fion:

Did you know that the Last Week in Denmark newsletter is available in eight languages? Hey there. This is Fion from the Last Week in Denmark podcast. And every week, you guys are tuning in to hear me and my friends, fellow co-hosts, talk about the top news of the week in English. But let's be real, we're all internationals. So not only are you speaking English every day, you're probably also speaking a bit of Danish, but you've probably also got your own native language as well, like the multilingual master you are. So why not treat yourself to the luxury of being able to read Danish news each week in your own native language? So head on over to last weekdk.substack.com, that's last weekdk.substack.com, and sign up for our newsletter delivered to you every single Sunday.

Katie:

That is interesting. If I'm completely honest, I avoid the news 90% of the time now because it's all terrible. I don't want to know. It's too scary. I hear enough of it from other people, and I have Last Week in Denmark. That's pretty much how I stay on top of things. If something's very important, someone will let me know. But I think it is just kind of that constant reminder, particularly in this age of social media, where there's so much information coming from so many places, is we have to be really critical of what we're reading because, like, it took us, what, two seconds to pick apart this article. Obviously, we did prep for the show, but yeah, you know, it was kind of okay. One is saying this one is saying that really what I think it is is kind of going well. Trump is the president, and that's a little scary. I think that is just the undertone of this is something that could happen, but maybe it won't, and then we can move on, basically. So we'll just have to see what happens, I think.

Arun:

Yeah. Should we move on to the next one?

Katie:

Yes. So I think the last topic for today is on the new collective agreement for industry workers, and that's going to boost wages, parental leave, and work flexibility. Some good, good news finally. So this, I think this has been going on for quite some time with the trade unions, but this will basically improve the working lives of 230,000 industry workers in Denmark. So it's going to make a huge difference to a large number of people and a positive difference, which is more important than anything in this day and age that we are in. You know, and they've obviously been fighting for a long time for these better working conditions. So the kind of significant things, just kind of the main things, are that they're going to get an increase to the minimum hourly wage and a 1% rise in the employee pension contribution. So, already kind of you to see an immediate uplift for everyone who's working in those kinds of areas. What I really liked and found very interesting, but also very Denmark, was the improvements they're making to things like sick leave. So, for example, if you're a grandparent now, you can take sick leave for your grandchildren, which I think is really interesting because it recognizes a shift. Firstly, that obviously a lot of people rely on their parents to be able to help care for their children in this modern age, when childcare is insanely expensive. But also, if a child is sick, people can't just drop everything because usually in a lot of households, both parents are working. So I think it's really interesting that now you can have sick days for people who are grandparents, which is really cool. And then I think there's more flexibility in terms of if you need to take longer-term absences, if your child is sick for more than two days, things like that. And then the other thing that I thought was super interesting was expanding on the idea of what qualifies as a family. So, benefits for family members have now kind of expanded that definition of what a family is to include social parents. So non-biological parents and blended families all now qualify for leave. And then, as well, solo parents can share leave with close family members. So if you're a single parent and you want to share it with, you know, your mother, who can help you take care of your child. So I think it's just really, really interesting to see this kind of moving forward in history to kind of go like. I think coming from Ireland, Catholicism runs very, very deep through our society, even though we are progressing in different ways. But I think it's really interesting to see the kind of things coming into say, like the nuclear family is not the only family anymore, and making sure that everybody benefits and gets the benefits that they're due. Particularly, you know, we have declining birth rates and a lot of reasons for people maybe to consider not having children. So, making sure that there are things in place to make sure that the child can be taken care of can only benefit everybody involved.

Arun:

I think that sounds very Indian, actually. Especially the grandchild supporters, I assume, because I haven't read the whole article, but the way you said it, I think it reminds me of if I have to be in India in Indian tradition. I probably think if we have to, like, consider moving back to India, I would go for my parents, obviously. And I think it's very. It's very non-Danish because I know the first thing that I saw was a huge culture, cultural difference. People are very nuclear and very autonomous, and they're independent. And I started to see how the relationship between the parents and grandparents is with or grandchildren. And seeing this article, I feel like. So the government is actually kind of considering to. It's not an enforcement, but it's like, you know, considering that there are benefits to support these. I'm deeply, you know, with my family. Right. And I call them every day, and I'm so close to my family.

Katie:

Oh. That's lovely.

Arun:

Even though I come from a faraway distance. But I, I don't see that in Denmark. Of course, they have parents. But they are super. I would say nuclear. How does it sound to you looking at, looking at these articles? Is it painting a picture that we want to do that or.

Katie:

Yeah. I mean, I think Ireland is very similar to Denmark in the sense that I obviously moved away from my parents, and it has only done wonders for our relationship. And while we have like a very good, healthy relationship,p and I talk to my mom every day, usually with sarcastic comments or memes, but we do talk every single day.

Arun:

Okay.

Katie:

But at the same time, I think there is definitely a "You want to get away from your parents in Ireland". I don't know if it's just like we're a little more small-town community. I don't really know why, but I would say one of my friends he's currently moved back in with his parents to save money so he can move to Japan. And I think it's slowly killing him. So. And I do get the impression like, my partner is Danish, she's from Hustlebro. I'm sure I'm butchering that. But say she's obviously in Aarhus. She's been in Aarhus for 10 years. She has a sister who lives 10 minutes down the road from their parents. And she has a house, and she will probably have a baby soon. And like, they're just so settled, and she sees their parents all the time, whereas we see them kind of every two or three months. So there are obviously two kinds of people that do exist. But I do think the majority of people in Denmark and in Ireland kind of fall into my camp of like, "God, you're wonderful. But I'm just gonna go over this way". So it is like there, I obviously love my family, but at the same time, I cannot see them all the time. And that's for the best, for everyone. But it's nice to hear that you have such a close relationship with your family. Do you do it, obviously, if you talk to them every day? But do you get to go home often?

Arun:

No, I travel at least once a year. But that is also because it's not a very common thing that many Indians do when they have families or when they're married, and they don't often travel. Some do, but I'm falling under some people who travel every year. But I would like to or wish to invite my parents during the summer, and I want to go during the winter. So I feel like every six months or every three months I get to see them more because I've seen that until 25, 26, I've been with them. And unlike the society that we see in Denmark, where the government takes care of everything, in India, it's a bit different. We are closely knit, and we have to support each other. I don't think the benefits that we get in Denmark are the same as in developing nations like India. So anything that we do, I save up and I invest in my family, and I don't think the government takes care of. So that's the mindset behind, you know, for me, if I have to take a leave, that could be for my aging parents or probably my kids. Right. And, it's interesting when I read this article, I feel like so they do have leave fun for even grandchildren, and I think "okay, wow". So they are considering me for meter pricing, so I don't know if it's sarcasm or not but I feel like I would become an average of what our Dane thinks that is how my concern is, and I don't want to, honestly, because I can't be I would say completely autonomous by myself at independence. At some point, I feel like if my parents are really aging, and then I feel like okay, let's go back and then fix things, or you know, that's why I feel like I cannot be completely transformed into a danified. I would say I can never be dainified. I will be Indian and I could of course blend in with other cultures and become a more kind of mix. The Indianness will never be completely out of me.

Katie:

I see no hold on to that with Dear Life as well. Yes, it's wonderful.

Arun:

Yes, I think we have covered the topics that we are supposed to, but do we have any closing thoughts or remarks, Katherine?

Katie:

No, I think it was nice to have a nice positive news piece at the end after two heavy articles, but it's been lovely chatting with you, and I feel like I learned a good few things from you as well. So thanks so much.

Arun:

It's a pleasure to be part of this project, have a podcast with you, and since it's going to be an audio version, I feel like I will not be embarrassed myself seeing it seeing my face. So it'll only be in the audio version. So I'm quite convinced that I will be better off. But yeah, overall I had a good chat with you and also an interesting take on all these topics. So yeah.

Katie:

Until next time. I'll talk to you soon.

Arun:

Yes. And for audiences listening to this podcast, do tune in every week. We have season three episode number five up and running. It's already been planned, so I look forward to that. Enjoy. Bye-bye.

Kalpita and Golda:

Hey, this is Kalpita and Golda, co-hosts of the Last Week in Denmark podcast. Did you know Last Week in Denmark offers sponsored content in the newsletter? Our reporters are producing original articles and content tailored for internationals in Denmark. So if you have a business our readers should know about, let us write about it. Get in touch with us at reporter Wid DK. You can also reach out to us on LinkedIn and Instagram @ Last Week in Denmark.