#TheForgottenGold movement, US Tariffs & Insurance Loyalty Tax: LWID S3E11

Katie and Kalpita dive into the silent (but important) crisis facing highly skilled internationals in Denmark, a new wave of 20% US tariffs on EU goods, and why staying loyal to your insurance provider could be costing you more than you think.

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Transcript

KATIE

Hello and welcome to another episode of the Last Week in Denmark podcast. I'm Katie, and today I'm hosting the podcast with the wonderful Kalpita. How are you doing?

KALPITA

Hey Katie, I'm good. It's our first time. So lovely.

KATIE

I know! I'm so excited for our first podcast episode together. So, let's jump in. What are we talking about today? We're looking at number one, a movement is born: the forgotten gold, which I think we both will have a huge amount to talk about. Number two, we're going to be talking about the 20% tariffs on EU products imported to the US. The latest brainchild of the wonderful Mr. Trump. And number three, talking about how if you change your insurance company every three years, you can avoid overpaying needlessly. 

So, for the first topic, a new movement is born. Forgotten gold. This is coming from a coin that was termed, I think, maybe two years ago, and it's re-emerging at the moment where Denmark has a number of initiatives to bring in more international workers to Denmark, which is great news, but it's kind of ignoring the already highly skilled workforce that we have here. It's not kind of ignoring it, it's completely ignoring it. So, this kind of idea that there are a lot of highly educated people who have moved to Denmark, they've integrated with society, but they are feeling left out, frustrated, unable to progress in their own jobs or find work really as well that can work for them and any partners that have come with them to Denmark. And I think what will be really interesting about this for us to talk about this together is you're obviously in Copenhagen and I'm in Aarhus, but I feel like we're gonna have a very similar feeling about this term, the Forgotten Gold. What's your experience?

KALPITA

Without going all negative and super doom and gloom about this topic, because it is in most scenarios, whether it's Aarhus, Aalborg, or Copenhagen, especially. The Forgotten Gold. I've had friends who I knew from India, and I have friends who I made in Denmark, coming from different backgrounds. Some of them are here for PhDs, some have come under Erasmus, and some have come as accompanying spouses. They all have had some or the other trouble in the realms of discrimination, doing jobs that are not something they're educated in or have the experience in. And some have just simply been extremely disappointed because maybe they got a master's here, say, in food science, and this person became a food scientist and had a really, really hard time finding a decent job. Worked part-time in a cafe as a barista and then did an internship on the side to keep the knowledge fresh right out of university. And that was sad because this person had to go back, and it does feel like you're sort of dropping the penny in some sense. You're just forced to quit a journey that you have started with such great ambition, but it just has to be a sad ending, one that you didn't choose—or vote for either.

KATIE

It does give feelings of settling because, in the sense of, like, you move to Denmark, and obviously, there's a great welfare system. There are a lot of wonderful things about this country, but it is a case of, oh, if I want to stay here, I need an income. But I think you wind up either not getting work or spending a long time looking for work. I know not my friends personally, but kind of in the different international groups for Aarhus, there are people who are looking for 9-18 months to find work within their field in any kind of work, whether that's an internship or a full-time role, and just not really getting anywhere or similarly kind of, if they want to change career. Being very, very stuck, because obviously if you don't, even if you do have the language, you don't have it the same way Danish people do. So, it's a bit like, oh, you've gone through all this effort to learn the language, but you're not going to speak like a Danish person. So, it's not really the Danish that they're looking for, particularly in my work, it's customer-facing. And I know whenever we're recruiting, we do need someone to be a native Danish speaker because the people who don't want to speak English want to speak to a native Danish person. And there is kind of a trust piece there. That's not right. But at the same time, you know, if we want to build that trust with our customers, that's what those customers are looking for. But then you see all these, like, highly qualified international people, and you're like, sorry, you're not going to fit in, in this particular place. And, you know, they've just gotten a huge amount of funding to bring more internationals in. So, over the next five years, they will introduce a number of initiatives to make Aarhus more attractive. and for internationals to stay here. But it is a case of like, okay, you can get them here for sure because it's a lovely place, full of lovely people. But how are you going to get them to stay if there are limited job opportunities or limited growth opportunities or even simple things like, you know, where are their children going to go? Do the children have to, if they're 10, 11 years old, do they now have to learn Danish to be able to integrate into society? They kind of do because otherwise they're going to meet the same limitations at every stage, within growing up, whether that's in university or working or the different opportunities that they're going to be limited to. 

So, it's kind of, it's nice to see that this initiative is here, but how realistic is it when those values of like kind of the homogeneity within Danish society of like, oh, we're the same and we all think the same, oh, but the people are coming from the outside, do we trust them the same way? Or even I know, even in my workplace, the company language is English, and it's kind of brought up a lot of the time to try and minimise speaking Danish. And that's purely from a workplace point of view in the sense that we're all working with the same customers. So, if we're all speaking about the same customers, it should all be in the same language, so we can help each other. And then sometimes, obviously, they do slip into Danish, which is absolutely fine, but it means some of us could be missing out on key information. And then there is kind of an attitude of like, no, no, we want to include you, so we should speak English. And I was like, that's very nice, but actually, the company language is English. So, we should be speaking English when it comes to work. So it's, I think there needs to be more of an attitude shift before all of these kind of initiatives are going to really have a good effect, and we're just going to wind up in the same people come over, they get started, it's all lovely and exciting, but then it's difficult to integrate, difficult to settle, difficult to make friends, difficult to move or even get work in some cases.

KALPITA

Yeah, I can speak from my own experience. I didn't come here as an accompanying spouse or for education. I simply came here because I was in love. I found this wonderful Danish man, whom I thought I wanted to spend the rest of my life with. And thus we got married, and I came here. And then I discovered that everything's rosy until you get into the job market, which then starts defining your worth, defining who you are and for how long you're going to be here. And I totally understand that people who get an education here would like to have a job here, obviously, and many others who come as accompanying spouses and for whatever other reasons. And I'm specifically speaking about those coming out of the EU. And that's not because I want to throw any shade at those coming from the EU or say that they have it easy.

KATIE

We do have it easy. You can say that. We do have it a lot easier.

KALPITA

Because all those non-EU people I have met, men or women, have a common thing. And that's not really integration. Everyone makes an effort to learn the language, use the language, and do as much as they can to integrate into the culture, and expand their boundaries to become more open-minded to welcoming the culture and all of that. But what really, really determines everything for these people is the job. Because if you have a job, you have a future. And a future does not necessarily mean that they will stick to Denmark for the rest of their lives, but it means that they are able to build a secure financial future, which is very, very essential. Whether you're a man or a woman, your financial security for the future is important, especially in the times that we're living in and not just the Danish economy, given that we are in some billions of surplus for this year. But no matter where you are and where you come from, that financial security becomes absolutely everything. And in modern days—and I say modern days because I've been here for about eight, nine years, and initially we didn't really have such a robust AI system or software that vetted CVs and things like that. More than the attitude change, I think it is also having this openness to people which are non-Danish and openness to the idea that every person that comes on your desk, as a recruiting manager or the hiring manager, whether you're hiring for your own team or for someone else's, that people who come on your desk throughout their CVs or cover letters do have the will and the need for this job. I mean, there is nobody as motivated and as eager to prove themselves as an international living in Denmark wanting a job. And that, unfortunately, and I would dare say, no Danish person will have, because they have the security of A-kasse; they have the security of dagpenge; they have the security of any other social security that they can get. They also have parents here, they have family here, they have a security net if the government is not going to look out for them. But that an international doesn't have; they've left home, and they've tried to create a reality here. And I think it is a bit unfortunate that an international has to go through the hardship of basic things. I don't think it is integration at all or a language barrier. People actively go and pay for that Danish education because it's not free anymore. So, it is a bit rigid. Sorry, I am on a rant, I realise.

KATIE

No, go. You're so right.

KALPITA

But this idea of having, you know, people retaining talent and inviting highly skilled professionals is only very poorly limited to IT professionals. And there is also a bias within that recruitment as well. So, any IT person is not really standing a chance in that recruitment pool. It is very specific nationalities that get the most preference. And then if you don't fit in that pool, but you are, by the way, having the qualifications, then you might be considered. So, it is not super clean, I would say. It is also not about only highly skilled professionals because that's just limited to IT. And now they are opening new nursing training centres for Asians who are interested. I know there's one happening in India and there's one happening in, I want to say, the Philippines, but I could be wrong. But one other Asian country as well. And they want to train those to come here and take the jobs. I understand it is a profession that you need a background in, and I respect that. I want to be treated by a very qualified and well-trained professional if I am in a hospital, not able to care for myself. And I would like that security for my family as well. Although I don't see why every international that comes into Denmark needs to clean toilets, work in a hotel, work in a warehouse or coffee house and clean Bella Center or, you know, pack something or deliver Wolt orders or JustEat or whatever it is, because that's very, very discouraging. It's demotivating. And, I mean, let's not even begin talking about auto rejections that come on a Sunday at 5 pm in the evening. Those are just all rejections that come in two hours after sending your CVs, you know, because there's clearly a bias there as well, not just you know, it doesn't make a difference if you don't have a picture on your CV. It's just ridiculous. And I think Denmark is not looking inwards. Denmark is looking outwards, which is not the solution for them. Even if we have a great economy right now, we do have this 20% tax that's coming from Mr. Trump. Although I don't think that's really going to be such a big detrimental thing for us because we are EU and we are quite good at what we do, and that's free trade and keeping our economy is great. But that forgotten gold extends to the EU as well. Like in Denmark, we're looking for German speakers, but Germany is also looking for workforce and so is France and Italy and other economies in the EU as well. I think EU has a problem and that problem is bias that they are not ready to accept and look inwards to solve really.

KATIE

It does feel very like we'll do you a favour and let you work here, you know, and you should be so lucky as opposed to we want you here and we want your unique expertise, your unique experience to contribute to it. But anyway, we've gone on a bit of a rant there, and as you mentioned, these lovely tariffs that Mr. Trump has brought our way. 

So, let's move on to topic number two, which is: there's going to be a 20% tariff on EU products imported to the US. So, Mr. Trump has lost his mind. I think he basically went on the lawn of the White House and just started shouting at Paris to places where there were no people. And as well, kind of really going at it for the, I think it was Thailand, Vietnam, and China, have crazy tariffs. But for us in the EU, it's going to be 20% tariffs on anything that's imported into the US. And I think the stock market was looking a bit crazy towards the end of the week, and we'll continue to look that way into the next week. What are you thinking about the latest development in the Trump saga?

KALPITA

I mean, I think everybody just needs to really relax when it comes to Trump these days. Everyone is really sick and tired. At least I am sick and tired of Trump this, Trump that. Now he did this, now he did that. And now JD Vance is taking some of the clout, and Elon Musk was taking some of the clout as well. And it's great. I think they are a fabulous study in how to keep yourself in the conversation, no matter how incredibly unhinged they are. I think that works in their favour as well because they are able to bring world leaders to the table and have a negotiation starting point, no matter how ridiculous that is. But Trump's tariffs, I don't think is going to be such a radical thing. I mean, the recent financial crisis, so to speak. This isn't, I don't think it will be a financial crisis at all. Since the crash happened back in 2007-8 and COVID, the market has dropped about, I don't know, how many thousand points? And I know that DAX, which is the German market, has fallen 2,000 points, which is also quite a lot, and that will continue to fall for maybe a couple of days, a couple of weeks, we don't know. 

And these things you cannot really predict because it is the sentiment and it is the market, and it depends on how each person sitting behind the mouse is clicking and what they're going through and how that collectively results in the market, which is completely unpredictable. Although we will recover from this, we have recovered before, and we have only become better and better from there. I think this idea of tariffs is only going to make all economies more and more self-reliant, which we already are. I mean, we have Volkswagen, we have Mercedes, we have Novo Nordisk, we have Maersk, we have all these big companies that still exist. We have SAP in Germany, and SAP has done even better than Novo Nordisk and other companies that we think are doing better. So, it's not at all that it's all that doom and gloom, and it's going to be such a big radical thing. Although that doesn't mean that we abandon American products. It's fine to have a Coca-Cola, it's fine. 

KATIE

Do you want to know a fun fact about Coca-Cola? So, the plant that makes the secret ingredient for Coca-Cola is in Ireland. So, every Coca-Cola you have in the EU, the secret ingredient comes from Ireland.

KALPITA

Well, there you go. 

KATIE

It's in a secret location. They wouldn't tell me where it was. Which is fair. 

KALPITA

Although, how big is Ireland anyway? If you have to go and explore and find where this factory is.

FIONN

Did you know that the Last Week in Denmark newsletter is available in eight languages? Hey there, this is Fionn from the Last Week in Denmark podcast, and every week you guys are tuning in to hear me and my fellow co-hosts talk about the top news of the week in English. But let's be real, we're all internationals, so not only are you speaking English every day, probably also speaking a bit of Danish, but you've probably also got your own native language as well, like the multilingual master you are. So, why not treat yourself to the luxury of being able to read Danish news each week in your own native language? So, head on over to lastweek.dk.substack.com—that's lastweek.dk.substack.com—and sign up for our newsletter delivered to you every single Sunday.

KATIE

Okay, that's a very fair point. I could if I tried. They did tell me which county it is in.

KALPITA

Okay, I mean, you have a starting point there. But that's the point, right? There are so many layers and so many aspects to this. I do not believe for a second that we are going to be in a crisis that we cannot get out of. I mean, we are in a surplus. If there's any good time, it is now to prepare for said crisis, if at all it has to come, and to prepare for any future that we foresee that's going to be detrimental to the economy and the safety of where we exist, which we're already doing. We have crisis preparedness going on. We have war preparations and defence strategies going on. We have so many allies that are coming to the table, having conversations. Our king and queen are going to France. Building relations and strengthening relations, Mette Frederiksen has gone to Greenland, so things are happening. And I think it's just a matter of time and holding to a seat tightly and just taking a deep breath, and we're going to be fine.

KATIE

I absolutely agree. It is very much feeling like the drama queen in the States is screaming the loudest and then trying to get all the attention. But as you say, I think even on this podcast we've covered over the last few weeks how Europe is pulling together to make itself more self-reliant. And it's kind of giving me Brexit vibes of a sense that there's going to be a big change here. Things are definitely going to change. There's going to be a lot of news. That's probably quite unsettling, but at the same time, we will get through it.  I think in a number of articles, experts seem to be thinking the US is going to be hit hardest by this, because if you're putting all these tariffs on all these countries, these products are still going to be imported. They are still in demand. That cost is going to be passed on to the consumers in the US. So I do, I completely agree that I don't think we're the ones who are going to be affected. And I think it's just looking for attention. I think there was one article I was reading before jumping on the podcast that was basically like, if you have investments, ignore the news for the next little while. It will sort itself out, but it's going to get worse before it gets better. And I think that's the best advice I've heard in a long time. And I think in general towards the US, I do wonder some days how much inspiration we're getting for future Disney villains from this whole setup. Like, will we have like a board of super villains coming up in a movie sometime soon?

KALPITA

Well, that would be one of the most iconic male Disney villains we would ever have. I wouldn't be surprised if it were like an apple head or something with orange.

KATIE

Yeah, like really painfully specific. I was watching the Incredibles yesterday, and Syndrome, I don't know if you remember, he was very loud, he had a lot of money, but he just wasn't very good at anything. And it really reminded me of someone with the large orange hair.

KALPITA

I read two things that I found very interesting. There was one economist, a Chinese economist, who said that, well, he can do that if he wants to, and that's not really going to shake us. Good for us, because most of things that we get are from China. So maybe expect your Apple phone to be very expensive, and then you can just save for two years and get the new one two years from now. And, I mean, it anyway costs like, what, eight, ten thousand right now. So, it's probably going to cost you 12-15,000.

KATIE

That's crazy. I'd be so afraid walking around with something that expensive. 

KALPITA

Yeah, but then good for Samsung and good for all other Asian manufacturers, you know, Panasonic or whoever else makes their better phones. Maybe there's an era coming where Apple doesn't get sold so much in Europe, and then it just becomes a luxury where you have to stand outside in queue, like LVE or whatever. Having said that, this economist said that, yeah, that's fine. It's okay. America is going to have more and more expensive Chinese goods, and that's fine. But that doesn't stop our production because China is so good at doing certain things that there's nobody better in the world right now. They are developing things in India. They're developing things in places like Bangladesh, the Middle East, and some other Asian countries. But China is China, and that's not going to change anytime soon either. 

And the other thing that I also read, I don't remember what outlet it was, but there's this very, very small African country that is the most taxed. I think it's 30, 33% or something like that. And they are an extremely poor country. They, like, literally have an almost non-existent economy. And the only thing that works for them is that they mine diamonds. So, luxury is going to be even more expensive because if you want diamonds—I wouldn't be surprised if there were still blood diamonds though—then Americans just pay more for more diamonds, I suppose. But then we have Pandora, who is making lab-grown diamonds, which is clearly the future anyway, and there's nobody as sustainable as Europe is.

KATIE

Yeah, we'll make a good future in America. We'll just destroy them. 

KALPITA

I'm quite certain. Europe has recovered faster than most economies, even after COVID, after the crash. So, we are okay, we just need to stick together, just as we do.

KATIE

We're great. Anyway, on to topic number three. So, this is changing your insurance company every three years to avoid overpaying. This is a major report that's been done in Denmark on insurance companies, and what they've found is that customers who stay with the same insurer for years often pay hundreds more than those who switch to new ones. So, I suppose it's something that I think has been going on in a lot of service providers in the sense of not rewarding loyalty with customers and kind of just trying to make the most market grab possible, but to see it in black and white in a report to say, if you stay with one insurance company, you will pay hundreds more every year. Whereas if you just switch from one insurance company to the other with the same coverage, if you're doing that every three to five years, you're going to save money, 100%. I know it's capitalism, and what do we expect? But at the same time, it is just like, oh, there's no such thing as reward for loyalty anymore.

KALPITA

Yeah, it's one thing. I think it's just rubbish that you have to keep changing your services. That's just. I mean, come on. We're in 2025. We live in a digital world, and we shouldn't have to do that. Also, I totally understand it's a question of competition, and it is a business at the end of the day. I totally get that. But we are in a digital world, so it's not that hard to really change your service. It's just a matter of calling one service into another saying, okay, I want to be your customer now. And they will do the rest. You literally have absolutely nothing to do other than just call the insurance company you prefer this time and say, okay, I'm going to be your customer and then call your old insurance, for example, and say, okay, ciao, thank you very much. And I'm transferring to this. Please make sure you give them everything that belongs in my name, and that's it. And you let your bank know that, okay, I've done this, and they will take care of that as well. So, two phone calls, three phone calls maybe, or an email, not even a phone call if you don't care enough to pick up your phone.

KATIE

That's true. I think sometimes when you go to cancel something, it'll automatically try and give you a discount to keep you. I find it quite counterintuitive. So, I work as a customer success manager in a SaaS company, and what we're told time and time again—we have the same counterintuitive nature—that retaining a customer is much cheaper than getting a new one. And that's just common sense. Obviously, you know this customer, you want to keep them, and they're happy with your service. What you have to do to keep them is so minimal, but at the same time, then they're like, give someone else a bigger discount because they came brand new. So it's exactly the same thing. And they just have to do something so small to keep those customers. And that's like, just don't change the price. Make a slight increase to keep in line with inflation so you're not losing money over time. But this kind of that you could be losing hundreds of kroner. It's crazy.

KALPITA

I hope the government is listening as well, because that also applies to getting new talent in instead of using the existing talent we have in the market.

KATIE

Oh my God, full circle.

KALPITA

Yeah, you literally have to do the smallest of things to keep the people that are already there, but they cannot be bothered.

KATIE

Yeah, they'll talk about it. They'll talk about how important it is. And God, oh, if only we could keep them. If only we could keep our customers, and then they just don't do anything about it. They're like, oh, they don't want to pay more money. Crazy. Or we'll wait till they're unhappy and then we'll do something.

KALPITA

But the funny thing is, maybe this is only unique to insurance because I have kept my phone service as is for so many years, and my husband had it even from before we got to know each other. And by far, it's the cheapest service we have received from anywhere. Absolutely anywhere. They will also call us several times, offering, 'Oh, we have a cheaper one for you.' And then I'm like, I kind of have the cheapest unless you're going to do something better than this. Are you going to offer me less than 100 kroner? Then you've got me. Tell me where to sign. But then I kind of pay a tiny bit more than 100 kroner for my service. So, I don't understand what could get cheaper. So I hope insurance companies pick up on that. Although insurance is a lucrative business, so it makes sense that their prices fluctuate.

KATIE

I was going to say a special kind of evil overlord, but yes, agreed.

KALPITA

I think we've been down the negative ride a lot today, calling people names and stuff. But yeah, it is.

KATIE

Do like to call people names, so that's my expertise.

KALPITA

Although, I mean, they are, they are legendary in being the evil business. So I feel sad for them, but then they also make all of my money.

KATIE

So, yeah, they're also, they must be on to something. They're making all the money. And I do have insurance. I am paying into the insurance, but I don't like it. 

KALPITA

Yeah. I mean, it's the same with A-kasse, right? Because they're also an insurance, sort of an insurance format as well, and your professional unions as well are sort of insurance companies where they'll offer you, oh, you get a free lawyer. But how many times are you going to use this free lawyer? I would hope that you never have to use this professional lawyer to get out of any kind of professional soup. That would just be so, so unfortunate. But how many times do people use it? And how many times is someone going to use that advice? So, literally paying almost a thousand-something kroner every month to be part of this, to have absolutely little to no reason to go and get that money back. And they don't give you your money back. They're the most evil of the evil, so to speak, because you don't get your money back. You can pay into A-kasse for the rest of your professional life, and you will never get your money back. Unless you, of course, go out of a job, and then they're entitled to pay you, which is why you pay them this subscription of 1000 something every month. 

KATIE

It is just paying for peace of mind. 

KALPITA

Do you have A-kasse?

KATIE

I do, but I feel a lot of comfort having it. So, for now, I'm happy about it, but I think I will definitely start to feel it when I go three or four years if I don't become unemployed, be like, oh, I'm still paying for this. What am I getting out of it?

KALPITA

Yeah, exactly right. I mean, you've been paying for so many, whatever months, years you've been paying, and luckily, knock on wood, you are not getting out of a job, and you have never been, so you never had to use it. So, they have all those I don't know, 12,000 per year, minimum money from each individual. So, show me my money.

KATIE

Imagine if they did give it back. That would be nice. I don't think that would ever happen.

KALPITA

I mean, that would be one way of retaining your customers, but hey.

KATIE

Yeah. But anyway, we've covered all the topics for today, so thanks so much for joining me, our first podcast. I think it went great. What do you think?

KALPITA

I think it was amazing. Love the banter. I think we should do this more together.

KATIE

Yeah. Oh, my God. We're very fun. Absolutely. We'll look at the schedule after this. But thanks so much for your time. And until we meet again.

KALPITA

Likewise, Katie. Bye!

KALPITA & GOLDA

Hey, this is Kalpita and Golda, co-hosts of the Last Week in Denmark podcast. Did you know Last Week in Denmark offers sponsored content in the newsletter? Our reporters are producing original articles and content tailored for internationals in Denmark. So, if you have a business our readers should know about, let us write about it. Get in touch with us at reporter@lwid.dk. You can also reach out to us on LinkedIn and Instagram at Last Week in Denmark.