Teen tan ban, Property boom, Charity powerhouse: LWID S3E17

Who’s being protected in Denmark — and where do the cracks show? This week on Last Week In Denmark, co-hosts Narcis and Katie, both internationals living in Denmark, share their personal reflections on the week’s top stories: a teen tanning bed ban, soaring housing prices, and new charity giving data. More than just a news roundup, this episode offers an honest, lived-in perspective on what these headlines mean for people navigating Danish life from the outside in.

In this episode:

• teen tanning bed ban in Denmark (01:37)
• record high housing prices in Denmark (11:42)
• donation levels in Denmark (19:16)

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Chapters

• 1:37 teen tanning bed ban in Denmark
• 11:42 record high housing prices in Denmark
• 19:16 donation levels in Denmark

Transcript

Katie:
 Hello. Welcome to this episode of the Last Week in Denmark podcast. Today it's me, Katie, with the wonderful Narcis. How are you doing, Narcis?

Narcis:
 Hello, hello, hello everyone, and welcome to yet another episode of Katie and Narcis. We haven't had this mix up for a while. Katie, is this only the second time ever we do episode together? Right?

Katie:
 It's only the second time. I've missed you.

Narcis:
 Oh, my God, me too. Me too. I'm really curious to see if we. If we remember how to talk together after so long.

Katie:
 Let's see, let's see. We got some good topics today. I'm feeling confident.

Narcis:
 Ooh, what topics we have today?

Katie:
 Yeah, let me tell you. Let me tell you. So, first and foremost, Denmark is going to ban tanning beds for under 18s to fight rising skin cancer.

Narcis:
 Wait, those are not banned yet?

Katie:
 No, not yet. I know. I similarly was like, what then? Home prices hitting a record high. Always good news.

Narcis:
 So, love that I have a house.

Katie:
 Yes, that's what I was like. I don't have a house. Who's lucky? And then the third topic is going to be about the 712,000 people donating to charity last year in Denmark and the average amount being given of just 600 kroner each.

Narcis:
 Is that good or bad? I. I have no idea.

Katie:
 Neither do I. I read the article behind it. But anyway, that's the third one. Let's go back to the tanning beds because I feel like that's where we're both a bit like. So what did you think of this bit?

Narcis:
 Yeah, tanning beds. Wow. But I mean, so basically what's. What is happening, like right now, young people under 18, I don't know, 13, 14, 15, they are going to these solariums and they're using them. Because I know in other countries it's banned, right?

Katie:
 Well, I think for under 18, it's banned. So I know in Ireland, since 2014, over 10 years ago, it's been banned for people under 18. And the reason being, of course, we know that it's responsible for making the risk of you getting skin cancer much, much higher. And reading up about this, what I thought was interesting is this ban is part of Denmark's plan to combat cancer and kind of the main causes of cancer. And the two, like, biggest things are tanning beds. And. And I think it's so interesting because I've found in Denmark the attitude towards smoking is so anti-smoking.

Like in our building, my old roommate used to smoke and she would smoke outside and people would complain that sometimes when they're coming towards the building, it smells like smoke. And it's like, okay, but people smoke. Like, where do you want them to smoke? They're not smoking in the building. And that complaint came up very often. And in my mind I'm like, that seems like a very anti-smoking sentiment. So the fact that there's so many people going to tanning beds when they're kind of in that same category, I find that crazy. And again, kind of the law isn't in place yet and it won't be in place until 2026.

So like, why such slow movement when we know this is very bad for people? I did a bit of googling to see what was it like in Ireland and that as well in the UK and this great website that's like the National Cancer Foundation in the UK and they're just like, are sunbeds good for you? No. Are they very dangerous? Yes. Are there any benefits? And it's got these kind of like, it's just bad. So it is like, why has this made it to this point in time in Denmark when the rest of the world has decided this is ridiculous? Especially for people under 18 and people as young as under 14 are going to tanning salons at the moment.

Narcis:
 Bit strange because you have to consider that Denmark has. The most common form of cancer in Denmark is skin cancer, melanoma. And artificial UV exposure actually increases your risk quite heavily if you start young. So already we are talking here about public health. We're talking about our taxpayers’ money that will have to go into to deal with the fact that you use tanning beds when you're young and then now you're sick from skin cancer, which costs us money. Because it is us who pay for your treatment. It is us who pay for your stay in a healthcare institution.

So I find it that it's a bit. It's vanity. Right. Why do they want to go to that? Why would anyone use a tanning bed? I never used one in my life. What's the purpose of it?

Katie:
 Me neither. And there aren't very many. Like, I live near the capital in Ireland and in Dublin. I'm kind of like, I can picture one, but I'm not sure it was actually ever open. I kind of assumed it was there for like money laundering or something. I didn't think people actually went.

Narcis:
 So you never used one?

Katie:
 No, I don't. And like, they look weird. It kind of like looks like you're sitting on a grill. I don't really understand the appeal of it. And I asked my partner and my partner is Danish. I was like, what is this? And she was like, oh, it's just very in trend in the 2000s and I think it's making a comeback. And I'm like, what does that mean that it's a trend?

Like in Ireland, it's much more normal to get a spray tan and then you go, you get your spray tan, you go on holiday and then your real tan replaces your spray tan. But I'm also a bit like, what is this obsession with tanning? The Nordic countries are notoriously pale people. Like, why? I guess people just always want what they don't have.

Narcis:
 Yeah. I mean most Danes can afford vacations and most people living in Denmark, and they go abroad, they see how they get this natural tan and the glow and how they look, they feel like it looks better. Right. They want that. So probably they come home and they’re like, okay, I cannot go so often to Spain to get this natural tan, so let’s just go to this cheaper alternative which is the tanning bed, and still get the same effect so I can still look good. It’s about vanity, to be honest.

Katie:
 Yeah. I wonder how much it is. Like, again, I have no idea. I haven’t looked into it ever because I have no interest.

Narcis:
 Probably not very much if 13-year-olds are using it.

Katie:
 Yeah, that’s true. But I can’t imagine wanting—like, I wanted a big water gun when I was 13. I don’t know that tanning ever really entered my mind. But I do worry about the digital—

Narcis:
 Age, the new generation. Yeah.

Katie:
 Young people, screens, seeing all these beautiful people being like, a tan. Maybe that will work.

Narcis:
 To be honest, using a tanning bed, I don’t think it’s just about being young. I think considering we are a country with the highest incidence of skin cancer in general, I think we should ban tanning beds. I don’t see a purpose of them existing.

Katie:
 I agree.

Narcis:
 Just because limiting the age to 18—what’s the sense of that?

Katie:
 I was trying—because I had exactly the same thought. Why does this thing still exist? Particularly when we know it can be so dangerous? And in terms of the benefits—okay, you get vitamin D, but not as much as if you’re in the sun or you take vitamin D tablets. So it just seems like a very unsafe way to get very slight benefits. And like that, it’s that kind of “Why does this thing still exist?” And it’s not like cigarettes, that there’s something you’re getting addicted to, because you could just go to the sun and that will do it more and better.

So yeah, it’s just kind of like why is this still a thing? And okay, great, we’re not letting under-18s do it. But why is anybody doing it? Anybody has heard of skin cancer, but—

Narcis:
 How do you stop them? Because nobody ever works at these tanning salons. So basically you just enter and you just sit down and you pay in some automatic way and you never see a human. So how do they stop me, a 13-year-old, from entering? They will ask me—probably digitally—“Are you over 18?” Yes. Cool. Like you go to a website that you shouldn’t be watching, right?

Katie:
 Yay.

Narcis:
 They’re asking you, “Are you over 18?” — “Sure, why not?”

Katie:
 That seems like the right answer. Yeah, there’s probably going to be MitID or 100 passwords or something.

Narcis:
 Ah, we have to think about this. Tanning salon owners, right—of course they will have to take a loss if the law says ban them outright. But implementing a MitID system in a tanning salon? We’re talking about quite a piece of technology here that needs to be put in there. I don’t know—where do we have that? Can we think of a place where we’re using right now MitID to enter?

Katie:
 No, I suppose not. Just every login page ever.

Narcis:
 I mean, I know a place where you can enter with your yellow card. I’ve seen places where you just have to scan and then it sees your yellow card. And I think if it sees your yellow card, should it see your birthday somehow?

Katie:
 Yeah, because it’s in your CPR number.

Narcis:
 Okay, so if it’s in your CPR number, then I guess you could limit it in that way—you can put one of those CPR readers and then connect the lock to that somehow.

Katie:
 Yeah, but maybe that’s part of it. Maybe by making tanning salons consider how you can age-verify people who come in, then that’s going to be expensive. It’s more of an investment. They close—problem solved. It’s a bit like making cigarettes more expensive. But it’s like, well, if people can’t afford them, then they can’t smoke. Which—problematic thinking. But we’ll move on from that because—

Narcis:
 Right now they’re just thinking about making it banned. But I think once they actually make the law, they will have to also tell the tanning salons how. Or they will just say, “You must introduce an age verification system. Good luck.”

Katie:
 Yeah. And then who’s checking?

Narcis:
 And then the salon will be like, “Okay, an age verification system. What in the hell is that?” Because think about it — you could have an age verification system in boutiques, in kiosks, right? Because we keep… now we have these undercover 15-year-olds who go and try to buy cigarettes and alcohol — mainly cigarettes — to see if the ban actually works and to catch the kiosk owners doing bad stuff. That was their way of controlling if age verification systems work.

Katie:
 I was going to say that as a joke, but okay, it’s real — good. I mean, I’m glad someone’s checking, which is nice. But I was a bit like, yeah, let’s send undercover 13-year-olds — oh, okay, they do do that.

Narcis:
 Yeah, because it’s a trap. It’s like a honey trap system. Like you send a 15-year-old, if you sell to him, you get a little beautiful fine afterwards. Pretty big fine, actually — up to 50,000 kroner.

Katie:
 I mean, that’s good. We did have mystery shoppers when I was younger and like that, they could ask for alcohol. If they weren’t asked for ID, they would be old enough. But if you didn’t ask for ID, then you would get a fine of some sort. So it did make me be more strict about it. So I guess that makes sense. But the idea of it stresses me out a lot.

Narcis:
 Yeah. So let’s see how it’s going to be implemented. I’m really curious to see. It’s definitely good that they will start at least talking about it. From what I heard, part of the law will also be all sorts of awareness campaigns in schools and on social media. So hopefully people become more aware. I didn’t even know that skin cancer was the most common form of cancer in Denmark. I would have never expected that in a country without sun.

Katie:
 It feels very counterintuitive — a country without sun. But then I guess we don’t know how to be in the sun. Like people in Australia have UV-protective clothes and I don’t know what that is. So…

Narcis:
 So imagine that — if you stay in Denmark and then you go abroad, you expose yourself to extreme sun, especially Spain in the summer — 50 degrees. Then I guess your body will not know how to deal with it. And then you keep doing it, keep doing it. And then when you’re older, I guess you pay the price. You pay the Pied Piper.

Katie:
 Wrinkles and cancer — but wrinkles, also true. Anyway, let’s go on to the next topic. You’ve no wrinkles, Narcis. Don’t worry.

Narcis:
 So the next topic we’re talking about is joyful — home prices hitting record high, making it harder for first-time buyers and sweeter for those already on the property ladder. Are you on the property ladder?

Katie:
 Yes, luckily. Four years ago I woke up and we bought a house and it was the smartest thing we have done. And since then I regretted wasting 10 years paying rent. That was the stupidest thing I did possible. Because 10 years of rent would have meant 10 years of payment — down payment — on the house. Money that would have stayed in, not gone away.

So to be honest, if you are renting, don’t think, “Oh my God, it’s going to be too expensive to get a house.” That’s not true. If you’re in a situation to have a salary and you have managed to put a bit of money aside — and if you have a partner, it’s even easier — of course consider switching from rent to monthly payments for the bank. Because it’s money that stays in your pocket — literally in your wealth, in your family wealth. The earlier you switch from renting to property, the better.

We had a topic like this before as well, where even the economists and so on — they tell the population. Because now it got a bit weird that most of the population does not own — it rents — that the rents will keep going higher and higher and higher. And actually, in the long term, you will be a lot poorer if you rent than if you own.

Narcis:
 Yeah. And I do feel like there’s kind of a — I think there’s a myth around property that eventually this property bubble will burst and the prices will start to go down. And it’s like, that’s just never ever going to happen. I know. I think Ireland is quite famous for its cost of living crisis. There are houses in Dublin that you can’t get a loan big enough to be able to pay for because they’re so expensive.

And even I had a friend who bought a house just before COVID — it was a new house — and from the year they bought it to the next year, it increased in cost by €11,000. So it’s insanity. And there was this idea that, okay, well the prices keep climbing, but that it needs to burst at some point because that’s what happened before. And it just will keep getting more expensive.

And it seems to be the same here, where it’s kind of — people are getting more money, people are doing well, the houses are getting more expensive. The apartments especially seem to be getting more expensive because that’s the way people are living now. And as you’re saying, the sooner you start to buy property, the prices are going to keep going up. So you’ll be saving money whenever you start buying compared to the next year and the next year and the next year.

Katie:
 The problem is the supply. Denmark is growing as a country — the population is growing — which means that more and more people need a place to live. Students are fine, for example, in their student apartments. But the moment they, you know, pass 30, establish a family, they all want a house for themselves. Then the supply that we have is limited.

We basically need to build way, way more every year to keep up with the increase in population. That would stabilize prices and not allow them to increase. But of course, as a house owner, I’m not unhappy that the house price is increasing. Not because I ever plan to sell the house — I think I’ll just keep it in the family. But it’s just because by having it at a higher value, I can actually take a bank loan against it and buy myself another house if I want to later on, and so on.

There’s many things you can do with a property, right? Once you’ve paid it off or you’ve paid part of it or whatever, you have a high-value, basically wealth item in your property that will allow you to get pretty big loans, right? For whatever else. That’s what the developers do — they buy old houses with the bank money, they refurbish them, sell or increase in value and then use them as a guarantee. Borrow more money from the bank, buy another one, use that one as a guarantee — again and again and again — until you have I don’t know how many properties. Basically work with the bank’s money, not with yours.

Katie:
 Oh God, I don’t think I’m smart enough for that. Did you have any hesitations though? Because obviously buying a house — you need money, first and foremost. Let’s just get that out of the way.

My big hesitation with kind of approaching — I did look at, with a previous partner, buying property in Ireland and kind of like, “Oh, the mortgage payments — we’re going to wind up being the same as our rent.” So it made sense to have a look at it. But it is that kind of — you’re kind of stuck. Or it feels very stuck if you buy the property, because your money has to go towards that property.

I think particularly kind of in — I want to say — a younger stage in my career. I have been working for 10 years, but like that, I expect there’s more places for me to go. It does feel kind of like, “Oh, but have I just... stuck here?” And then I’m deciding to stay here? That would kind of be my thought — if I have a mortgage, there’s something I need to put money against.

Narcis:
 I think what we’re thinking — we see housing as permanent. We see housing as something that we must keep. But we forget — we live in a seller’s paradise, right? The limited supply and all. Which means that your house is actually an investment. Literally, your money will grow faster than if you actually invest it or if you put it in whatever other schemes of capital increase.

And you don’t have to pay tax on the value increase of the house — which you have to in all the other options. So to be honest, you should see it as an investment, not as a, “Oh my God, this is where I’m going to be for the rest of my life.” Nobody knows where you’re going to be in five years from now. Who cares? But five years of rent versus five years of — I don’t know, how is it called — mortgage. Well, those five years of mortgage — you can get them back when you leave. That’s a beautiful amount to have.

Katie:
 You’ve convinced me. Show me the house. Where do I go? I just need money.

Narcis:
 Well, you need 5%, right? You’re European, so you need just 5%. And you have probably a lot of years of work in here, so you should be — your eyes closed. And even if your bank doesn’t want to give you—

Katie:
 Did you just call me old, Narcis? That’s what I heard.

Narcis:
 For God’s sake. So that’s a... that’s a lot. You know, you’re one of the safe bets for the bank. So I’m pretty sure you just need the 5%. And now it depends how fancy of a house or how central Copenhagen you want to be. Because of course, if you’re willing to stay a little bit out in the suburbs like I did, then you can afford a nice house with not such a big investment, you know?

Katie:
 Mm. Yeah, I’m in Aarhus. Oh. I was looking at the increases in pricing depending on where you are — and Copenhagen was like five times every other area. And I was like, I’m so glad we live here.

Narcis:
 So, I mean, if you go and buy yourself something in Skøyen, the new and upcoming part of Aarhus, that can be a place that definitely — the value of the property will probably double in the next five to six years. I like this idea because it is being developed like crazy. There’s a lot of new building areas, a lot of new facilities. Everything is new, so it feels like a new life in there.

If we’re talking about Aarhus, Skøyen is definitely the location if you want to live in an apartment — not necessarily a house. But for me, it was more important to have an outside of the house, garden and so on.

Katie:
 Yeah, I think that’s kind of my vibe. But anyway, let’s stop talking about me and all of the houses I’m going to buy, apparently.

Katie:
 But onto the final topic. So this is that a report shows that 712,000 people donated to charity last year in Denmark, giving an average of just 600 DKK each.

Narcis:
 Okay.

Katie:
 I have no idea what to make of that figure. I am like, is this shocking? So I went into kind of the article that’s in the newsletter, and it was this woman who’s an influencer, who was basically being quite critical of people not donating more. And she was saying that she donates — it was over 700 kroner a month to charities throughout the year.

And this kind of idea, again, talking about — we’re in charge of our spending, our spending has impact on the rest of the world. Particularly, we’re in a richer country in the Western world, so it can have a huge impact on kind of poorer parts of the world. And we need to take more responsibility in regards to how that affects human rights, sustainability, equality throughout the world.

And I’m kind of like — in one way, I see what you’re saying. But in another way, I don’t know. I mean, I’ve donated to charities, but they tend to be once-off. Like, a friend of mine is doing a walking challenge, or there’s a lovely charity near where my parents live called Dogs Trust. But that’s very much — they care and rehouse dogs. So it’s a very tangible service and I can see where that money goes.

Whereas I also know a number of charities in Ireland have been found guilty of huge amounts of fraud due to corruption and people embezzling funds and things like that. So particularly from where I’m from, there’s not a lot of trust in charities. And then I’m also a little like — once again, not knowing a huge amount about the topic of charities in Denmark — but as someone who’s been here three and a half years now, I don’t think I could name a single Danish charity. I think some people came to my door once with a red box, but everything is red in Denmark, so I don’t know that that would help me find them again.

Narcis:
 That was the cancer donation — for against cancer. To fight against cancer.

Katie:
 Got ’em. Very good. To get rid of the tanning salons. That’s what I always do.

Narcis:
 Yeah, yeah, exactly. But for me, the way I see it is basically one in seven people is donating every year. Not a very large amount on average — right, 600 kroner is not very large — but still, one in seven. It feels like a lot, in my opinion.

But then I looked at the UK and Netherlands, and actually the rate there is one in four that are donating to charity, which is much higher than us. And also the amounts are much higher. But I guess we’re also not a charity country, are we? We expect the state to take care of the homeless shelters, of refugee support, of cancer research, of climate action — whatever. Right? We’re used to the fact that the state takes care of us. The state must provide.

So I understand countries that are very liberal-minded, very capitalistic — like the UK, Netherlands. Yes, high capitalism comes with people being left behind, comes with charity being needed at a much higher level. But in Denmark, it surprised me how many people are actually donating to charity, considering that we do expect the state to do its job. Right? Why do you need charity if the state does its job?

Katie:
 Yeah, I suppose it depends what the charity is for. I mean, I don’t remember, but in the article that I was reading, I got the impression that it was looking at things that impacted the world beyond Denmark. But then, yeah, I guess it’s kind of an awareness piece. It is kind of, what is Denmark doing? What are we as a country doing? What do I as a person want to achieve? And what are the charities that align with that?

It’s like — I have no idea where I would find that information. And I’m kind of trying to think. There’s like... there are ads in the cinema, but it’s mostly for child protection services, which I expect the state to take care of. Or like you’re saying, homeless shelters — which I expect the state to take care of, because that’s what we talk about in Denmark all the time.

I think I’ve literally heard the phrase, “You can be homeless in Denmark, but like, there’s help if you want it” a hundred and one times. And I’m kind of like, oh, okay. That’s like — that’s fantastic. But then I am kind of like, how do you find which charities, and what are you supporting, and where does that money actually go?

Again, coming from a skeptical space of — there have been a lot of charities in Ireland that have been corrupt or they found embezzling funds, or funds being moved around, or ways of like, kind of moving money, taking huge advantage of their employees, really overworking people, things like that. So it is something that I approach from a very critical and skeptical space of like, is this charity actually doing good or is it just pretending to do good?

Narcis:
 I don’t have that feeling — that I expect charities in Denmark to be corrupt in any way. I just, to be honest, living in Denmark for many years — for almost 15 years — I almost felt no need to give to charity, to be honest. The only reason I give to this red box is because they come to my door, there’s an old little grandma, and they look at you, and it’s like — it makes you feel poor if you don’t give anything. And you have a bit of pride and you’re like, “Fucking hell, of course I have some money laying around here.”

Katie:
 You go, yeah. Or they go, “Do you want to help sick children?” And you want to be like, “No, not really.” But I guess I could. Okay.

Narcis:
 What can I do about it? You told me like... and then you — because you feel like you don’t have pride, right? If you say, “No, I don’t want to help,” where’s your pride, right? Because then you feel like — am I that poor, though, to say that?

And let’s be honest, we are not that poor in Denmark. Even if you work — I imagine the worst-paid job in Denmark — and it’s still a better-paid job than most countries in Europe. We do have capital. It’s not just the country that keeps finding money, it seems — in its pockets — it’s also us who have quite decent savings.

I mean, you don’t have to have, I don’t know what, fancy job and whatnot to put money aside. I mean, for God’s sake, I’m talking to friends I have in Germany, France, in Spain — the concept that we actually in Denmark are able to put money aside, for them, is foreign. It’s strange that you actually have the capacity to put money aside.

I mean, of course, if you’re really bad at your finances, you’re going to be saying, “But I cannot put any money aside.” Yes, you can. You just don’t want to. It’s two different stories there. You know, you can cut down to the bare minimum if you want to. Yeah, you shouldn’t pay everything everywhere — like every time an insurance says, “Get this insurance, get this insurance.” No — don’t get any insurance at all. Just get the basic one that’s legally required — like the fire one for the house — and that’s it. Don’t accept every insurance seller out there who tries to push thousands of kroners onto you. Or every subscription popping up every third day or something. You know, it adds up.

Katie:
 Ice cream. Ice cream is my weakness. There’s a lot of ice cream — good ice cream — in this city.

Narcis:
 And what I can say about charity is that you at least can get your money back because it’s tax deductible. We should remember that. So basically every month, all the money you give to charity, you can get it back. So if you’re employed and you actually have tax deductions, of course — then to be honest, it doesn’t really matter for you.

You can just decide how much money you feel like giving every month. You set up like an automatic payment and that’s it — it’s done. You’ll get those money back when the taxes are recalculated in March next year.

Katie:
 See, that’s great. But I feel like I also — I only found that out from the Last Week in Denmark newsletter. I feel like that information isn’t so obvious, so you need to kind of go looking for it. So like that — there is an incentive there to then, as you say, if it doesn’t make a difference and then you can give to charity — fantastic. Then you can tell people and feel very good about yourself all the time as well.

Narcis:
 I mean, sometimes I think in Denmark it’s not so much about charity, but more about support. You can actually donate to all sorts of organizations that are lobbying and advocating for something you believe in. And I think that’s probably more fit for a country like ours.

Katie:
 Yeah.

Narcis:
 So let’s say you care about, I don’t know, women’s rights in South Asia — and there’s a Danish organization who does that — you just donate to them.

Katie:
 Yeah, that’s true.

Narcis:
 Yeah. So it’s not always something internal, right? Or maybe even an organization that is about bringing the internationals in Denmark together, creating safe spaces for them or spaces for them to be together — like AMIS, for example, which you can donate to. Shameless, shameless, shameless plug.

Katie:
 Yes, absolutely. Absolutely.

Narcis:
 But I mean, there are causes. It doesn’t always have to be “give me money or the children will be dying.”

Katie:
 You know, that does work though. When they say that, you do feel bad.

Narcis:
 Yeah, I know, I know, I know. But it just... it makes me feel more about shame than actual desire.

Katie:
 Yeah. I also can’t name that charity. I just remember them being like, “Do you want to help dying children?” I was like, oh... yeah, I guess.

Narcis:
 I guess.

Katie:
 Here.

Narcis:
 My last 50 kroner. I wanted to buy a croissant with them, but you know what? Here you go. Have them.

Katie:
 They could just make croissants less expensive. Then I’d have more money for charity. They’re not understanding my struggles.

Narcis:
 Exactly.

Katie:
 But I think we covered all three subjects by now.

Narcis:
 We did. It was a pleasure once again to talk to you, Katie, and thank you to everyone listening to us. You have probably gotten tired of my voice — I have been three weeks in a row. But don’t worry, you will not be hearing me next week.

Katie:
 No, you’re the favorite, Narcis.

Narcis:
 Otherwise, thank you so much, Katie. Goodbye to everyone and see you next time.

Katie:
 Thank you. Bye. See you next time.