Last Week in Denmark

Denmark Drone Scare, New Immigration Minister, Jobs and Growth Update: S4E8

• Season 4 • Episode 8

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Drone Scares, Politics, and Optimism:  This week’s episode unpacks a tense but hopeful stretch of news in Denmark: the wave of drone activity that shut down airports and raised questions about hybrid attacks, the appointment of hardline politician Rasmus Stoklund as the new Immigration Minister and what that could mean for internationals, and the National Bank’s unexpected forecast of economic growth despite major job cuts. Guiding the conversation are Katie and Kalpita, internationals who have lived in Denmark for years, reflecting on what these developments mean for daily life and why there are still real reasons to stay calm, optimistic, and engaged. 

Topics: 

(01:49) Denmark Drone Scare

(12:38) New Immigration Minister

(27:02) Jobs and Growth Update

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Kalpita 

Hello everyone! Welcome to yet another episode of Last Week in Denmark. I'm Kalpita, and I have the lovely Katie with me. How are you?

Katie

Good. It's nice to see you. How's everything going?

Kalpita 

You too. It's been a busy week. Lot's been going on. We had International Citizens Day, and shout out to everybody who came to our booth, showed their support, shared feedback —  very, very valuable. And it's always nice to see people and appreciate what we do. So please, always send in any feedback again.

Katie

Yes, we like positive feedback, but other feedback is good too. That's... We will, we will read it. But the positive, we just go, "Ah, very, very good!"

Kalpita

True that. How about you? How was your week?

Katie

Yeah, all good. It's a bit of a blur now. I don't really know what I did, but it felt busy and I had a good time. So, you know...

Kalpita

Which is important. Yeah. When you're having a good time and you don't remember, everything's good.

Katie

Yes, that's the goal. Every week.

Kalpita

Yeah. Yeah. Well, we will be addressing the elephant in the room, which is the drone activity all over Denmark. At the same time, we have some other interesting topics because there has been a lot going on as well. We have a new Immigration Minister, Mr. Stoklund, and we'll talk about the Nationalbank and their projection for the rest of the year, and our progress. And all of this is going to be with an overall theme of optimism because we don't want to be scaremongering. Yeah. So, the elephant in the room, did you see any drones lately?

Katie

I did not, but I did get a text from my mother being like, "There's drones very close to Aarhus." And I was like, "No, Copenhagen's very far. It's fine." And then I saw that they were in Aalborg and Esbjerg, and I had to say sorry. So I hope, like, whoever's sending the drones, we're pretty sure we know who it is, but stop it. You're upsetting my mother.

Kalpita

Yeah, I mean, there was some activity going on this morning as well. That's what I saw in the news, that there was some new drone activities going on in the air of Denmark. But I do understand that many, many people are nervous. Many people do not quite understand what should happen or what kind of reaction should be. It's... And that's exactly what this professional actor, who's involved in this drone scare is wanting us to feel. Because under popular opinion, it is said that the professional actor wants to or has the scare tactic, and they're experts at this, and it shouldn't be something that citizens should be scared of. But I'm nervous as hell.

Katie

Yeah. I think when it's everywhere in the news, and it is like we can't confirm exactly who it is, but there's a certain war-loving nation that we're pretty sure is behind it. You do, it's like we're hearing a lot about war. We're hearing a lot about preparation. We've just had an episode on Denmark investing in long-range missiles, and that's probably what has sparked on this reaction or this, this scare tactic. Should we believe that it's being done by this particular nation? But I suppose as well, just kind of say if you've been living under a rock, what happened was that the airports around Denmark were shut down due to drone activity. And I personally was like, "But (unclear) so small. Why are they bringing down all the planes?" But it is, of course, because we don't know what the drones are up to. We don't know if they are carrying anything, but also if they need to be shot down, you don't want to accidentally hit a plane. So that caused a huge amount of disruption this week. And while they are calling it a hybrid attack, but, it is, the hybrid attack seems to be designed just to scare people and test defenses. And we are seeing it in other countries in Europe as well. I think it was in Poland, I think Romania too, this year, have had the same kind of attacks on drones appearing near key infrastructure. And whether it's to just like to scope out and see what's happening, there have been drones in Denmark near military areas, so, are they looking to gather information and intel, or is it just we want to scare some people because Denmark is making a move for these long-range missile options, I suppose? In case of further issues. But I think, like, the comfort of it is that Denmark is taking it very seriously. Like, there are discussions of contacting NATO, seeing can they invoke Article 4?, which is where NATO has that, should they meet up and coordinate a response? Because do they believe this is something that has been set up and orchestrated by Russia, and is it something that needs to be responded to in a collective movement? And I think that's kind of the same feeling I got when they, the government, said they were investing in long-range missiles. It's less about how are we preserving ourselves, how are we protecting ourselves, how do we survive, and it's more about how do we make this stop, how do we make sure as a unit that we don't let Russia take down Europe, basically. So, I think there's hidden good news in there, even though it's good.

Kalpita

Yeah, I think that's a very logical way of looking at it and also a more neutral way of looking at it, as well. I remember two weeks ago when Poland was attacked and they shot down these drones. There were, you know, like a news reportage. You get people, regular people like you and me, talking about, "Oh, how do you feel about this?" And, "What was your reaction?" "Did you see anything?" And one of the ladies says that she didn't. She didn't see anything, but she read in the news that there was something like that happening. But the Polish government was not open about what was going on. And she said that not sharing information with citizens is not the right way to do things. And the biggest issue with that is a fearful society is not a good look in, when you are being attacked. You want to inform people, you want to put them at ease, which I think the Danish government is doing an excellent job of. They are, I mean, they are known to, to be honest and strategic. I'm sure it is a strategic move to not say who it is, even when we know who it is, because we don't want to draw the attention. We want to buy time and make sure that we have the right tools, the right tactics, and the right allies and partners to make sure that we have a good solution to go out with and a solution that, that will put, hopefully, a positive end to everything instead of it escalating. I did try to speak with some of our colleagues who live near the, who live in Aalborg or near the airport in Copenhagen. And it is scary. It is also, when it happened for the first time, it's also a bit of a situation that you don't know how to grab this information. Should it be something that you, you know, for example, take your kids down to the basement and feel safe, or should you sit in a balcony and take a video of it, you know?

Katie

Like the Northern Lights, but less impressive.

Kalpita

Yeah, exactly. But at the same time, the, the bigger issue is that if they were to shoot these down, then they could possibly damage property. They could be more. They could cause more trouble and more hurt to people than actually solve the issue. And I know there's this big conversation going on about why don't we have jammers and why are we not shooting them down and so on and so forth. And I think it's a calculated risk that the authorities in Denmark are taking across Denmark, not just in Copenhagen, to make sure that citizens are protected, infrastructure is protected, and we take the right steps towards making sure that we're doing all the right things.

Katie

That does seem to be, and just to kind of follow up of what you said about them being very good about reporting, there's been transparency on all of that. So they're not using jammers because they can jam their planes and the signals that they need to be able to land safely and not kill people. But they're not shooting it down because they might, number one, shoot down a drone and it hits someone on the head and they die. Big problem. Don't want that to happen. It could hit key infrastructure. They can't control where the drones are going to fall or where they're going to hit them, necessarily. Whether that's over an ocean, which, surely, that would be fine, but if it's over an airport, big deal. Could hit something really important. And so like that they're addressing those things in these articles. So, like you're saying, they're being very open. And I think it really is nice to see a country that trusts its public with that information. I feel like in Ireland, they don't tell us anything because they know we'll just overreact because we're very dramatic people. If anyone's watched the Irish situations, you know what I mean. So it is really nice to see. And I think I am a person who is quick to be like, "What?! Drones?! What's happening?" Because I don't know anything about drones. I don't know, like, in my head it's that annoying buzzing sound when I'm, you know, in the midst of my 30s crisis playing paddle, and you just hear a buzzing overhead. And I don't think of it as something for, like, involved in war. And then you hear it's at an airport. And then you hear whole airports are shutting down. You're like, "Oh, my God, what's happening?" But I do think the Danish reporting around it, and the response is very, very calculated. And they're being very careful, as you say, not to provoke anything. But they're also not doing nothing. They're not ignoring it. They're kind of going, "Okay, we can't prove that it's Russia." And we know that they have found that some, in some countries, there are people on the ground who are being hired by Russian operatives to do it in their own country. So maybe it is a Danish person or someone else in the country who is operating these drones on behalf of Russia. And then it's harder to prove. So it is. They're being very, very careful to say who's responsible and should we invoke Article 4? Because if they can't prove it, does it make sense? And that's probably what the drones are for as well. They want to see what we're going to do, you know, if we make them shut down the airports, if we disrupt things, how is Denmark going to react? And so far, I think they're doing a really good job because it's very like, calculated. It's very working with the facts, but also the facts we know but can't say out loud, and then acting accordingly. So I do think there's a... I, personally, feel comforted by the response in Denmark and the way that they've reported it.

Kalpita

Yeah. And the idea is also to continue, as you said with the 30-something-year-old crisis of playing paddle, instead of fussing over drones overhead and things like that, the idea is to continue daily life and not cause disruption in daily life. We need, well, we need the economy to run, but we also need to make sure that all of us are not running helter-skelter in panic. At the same time, it is strongly advised and welcomed that you send any kind of material that you can send in, and report any drone sightings. I know so far there have been about 500 plus sightings reported. Most of them have been cleared as no threat. But if you do think that you are seeing something that is not normal, take videos, take pictures, make sure you have a lot of proof. Instead of posting on social media, you send it to the police and they will look into it and take every, yeah, take every report seriously. So if you feel like and you think you're seeing something and maybe not hallucinating, then you most certainly send that to the police and just live your life as you do every day, with or without the drone activity.

Katie

That's great.

Kalpita

Yeah. At the same time, while the drones were interrupting flights, the Prime Minister has reshuffled her cabinet again, and we have three new ministers. The Tax Minister, Rasmus Stoklund, is now the Immigration Minister, which has caused the most interest across parties, across citizens, and across internationals, especially. Have you ever heard of Rasmus Stoklund?

Fionn

Did you know that the Last Week in Denmark newsletter is available in eight languages? Hey there, this is Fionn from the Last Week in Denmark podcast. And every week, you guys are tuning in to hear me and my fellow co-hosts talk about the top news of the week in English. But let's be real, we're all internationals, so not only are you speaking English every day, you're probably also speaking a bit of Danish, but you've probably also got your own native language as well, like the multilingual master you are. So why not treat yourself to the luxury of being able to read Danish news each week in your own native language? So head on over to lastweekdk.substack.com that's lastweekdk.substack.com, and sign up for our newsletter, delivered to you every single Sunday.

Katie

I didn't until this came up. And then I saw the word hardline. So that he's known for taking a hard line on immigration. I was like, "Oh, no." I... My experience so far in Denmark has been like, no one has a soft line on immigration, really, unless it's, you know, one of these international publications. And you think you see the odd thing of, you know, internationals contributing to growth in the country, and, you know, we need more people from abroad to fill certain jobs and things like that. But outside of that, I think this is just another step in a troubling narrative around internationals in Denmark and kind of being more restrictive without any really good reason. And I feel Rasmus Stocklund is kind of the head of that. I asked my partner about it because she's Danish, and she obviously keeps track of politics, and she was like, "Anytime anyone has a difficult question around immigration, they go to him", because he's not afraid to give what I would call a terrible answer. I'm sure he thinks it's a good answer.

Kalpita

Yeah, you're right. He's known as a hardliner on immigration and asylum issues. I think his forte would be asylum issues more than immigration. And he has been known to advocate for Denmark to ignore certain judgments of the European Court of Human Rights when they clash with immigration or deportation pushes. So it's also a clear sign from the government of what issues they are taking in relation to the big election season that's supposed to be coming next year. He has made comments that just because someone fears a bomb falling on their home is not always sufficient ground for asylum, which is hardline. But it's also a very cynical approach to asylum issues. We are part of the EU, we are part of the UN, so we can't really ignore human rights. I know Denmark and other European countries are stretching their... their, yeah, their ways of handling asylum and refugees. Many have rejected. Many have made stricter rules. Many are even considering sending people, like, there's been conversations to Greek or Africa or something like that, so they don't have to be responsible for them, but they do provide and adhere to human rights by the UN and the EU. So they are finding ways around it. They are making sure that their stand on immigration, especially asylum, is becoming stricter and becoming more and more strong as a unit and not stand alone in their hardline stance. And this is not just an EU thing, because immigration as a whole has also become an issue across Europe, and we also see that in the US and the UK. But for this conversation, we'll consider the UK as part of Europe, because they have also been having big rallies, big conversations in the media, and debates about how much immigration and where and when and why immigration, as well. And they're making stricter rules, as well. Everybody is considering immigration to be a big, big topic in the next five years, and it has been a big topic ever since COVID. We've seen dramatics on the streets and across Denmark as well. And that was just probably the beginning. Some good things and a lot of not-so-good things.

Katie

Yeah, I think we've kind of moved into what I'm gonna call the Trump era, where there's this little orange man in the US who just says such insane, ridiculous things that the rest of the world is just like, "Cool. We don't have to hide if we're racist or sexist or homophobic or whatever else, because whatever he's saying is worse." And I do think the openness about certain kinds of policies are where I have a big problem. Like, I don't know anything about the cost of bringing asylum seekers or refugees. I don't know the impact of immigration on a country on an economic level or a social level. That's not an overview that I have, but I do know, so, for example, my partner was listening to a Danish podcast today called Det, Vi Taler Om, and Søs Marie Serup described a fight in Christiansborg at the moment on who can be the toughest on Muslim immigration to get voters back from the Danske Folkeparti. So that's just too specific for my liking. It's tiring. One or like just one kind of person with one brush and saying, "We need to focus here." And Stocklund's stance is "We should dare to say that Islam is the problem, because there's a lot of competition for votes." And I'm just a bit like, "I don't like how specifically they're going for a specific target, because we're not talking about all asylum seekers, are we?" Because it was very positive response from Ukraine. Denmark was in there. They have different rules for people from Ukraine. They're coming from a war-torn country, we should absolutely be welcoming them. But then other war-torn countries don't seem to be as worthy of the Danish freedoms and benefits because they maybe don't match the Danish values as defined by Danish people that they don't necessarily share with people coming into the country. Like, I obviously am a hugely privileged person. I come from an EU country, I am white, I can blend in here, no problem. I find it difficult to integrate here. I don't know the (unclear) norms. Denmark is quite different in a lot of ways. And there's a lot of things in Denmark that are just, "You should know this." And it's something me and my partner talk about a lot of the time. Because I'll be like, "How does this work? Like, how, how..." And then she'll be like, "Oh, this is how it works." And I'll be like, "But how do I know that?" And she'll be like, "Well, you just know, I don't know." And that's just it. So it's that kind of, you know, I am from a new country, my culture is not so different from Denmark, and I have a Danish partner that I can check in with, and I still find it difficult to integrate into the society. So kind of going like, "Well, they don't match our values, and they're not, you know, acting the same way as Danish people." It's like, "Well, no fucking duh." But like, help people work with them to this. And just to be like, "Well, if they are Muslim then they're going to be a problem." It's like, "Okay". That's, it's, it's like one of the biggest religions in the world. Like, that's a huge amount of people that you're deciding are all problematic? Like, that doesn't make any sense either. So I think it's this kind of extreme stance that is the problem when it comes to immigration and asylum seekers. And that is unfortunately, what Stocklund is known for. So I am a bit concerned about where this conversation is going to go over the next few years.

Kalpita

Yeah, I mean, Ukraine, let's say it flat out is not an Islamic country, so it makes sense that Denmark supports them. And just yesterday there was a reportage on underground schools becoming a thing in Ukraine, where kids go to underground schools and they talk about how they don't hear any bombs or anything, they only hear the overhead trains and stuff like that, which is great. And I know that's what Denmark is trying to show that, "Look, all your tax money that we've sent into Ukraine is now being put into good use, because look, these little kids are now going to school and they are safe." Which is great, and I'm absolutely here for anyone and any country who finds a way to educate their children and keep them safe. Having said that, I'm not surprised that Stocklund is not political... does not care to be politically correct. It is becoming a norm across countries that are talking openly about immigration, that Islam is a problem, and I have zero knowledge or facts to prove whether it is or it is not. But without making that a conversation, I think the overall approach to this has been in the most politically correct way to control crime and to control everything that's related to crime. And terrorism is also a big topic within this immigration issue as well. It's certainly not economic because everyone knows across the EU that they need people, and they need people from wherever people will come from. But we have also discussed, Katie, in the past of how Denmark is trying to control who comes in as well, even if it is the need for people. The nurses' conversation we had, and not getting people from third-world countries, and then, recently, we also had Roskilde University rejecting straight up, saying, "We don't need this nationality, and we will not have them." So it's, it is a bit of a soup for all European countries, not just Denmark. And maybe the latest government is trying to take a strong stand on immigration, or at least show that they are going to take a strong stand. But let's not forget that we are bound by laws, we are bound by rules by the EU, the UN, and the Constitution of Denmark. So it's easy for Stocklund and his kind to make outrageous comments and make very, very strong implications of what they actually think. But that does not mean that they will actually result into something that is as adverse as it seems like. So there is, there is optimism in this person continuing. Having said that, that also means that we all need to go out and vote and make sure that we have our say exactly the way we want it. So I would encourage everybody to go to Last Week in Denmark and read all the candidates that have been interviewed, read about the parties that are standing for elections, and educate yourself. We also have a podcast called #VOTEHOME, which is doing an excellent job of interviewing mayors, candidates, regional councils, so you actually understand what people do in the office, what your vote actually results into, and how do these people affect your daily life, which is very, very important because it's easy for us to sit across the dinner table or on podcasts and talk about how everything is this, that, and the other... But the time that you can actually bring change is by going out and voting. So go out and vote, people.

Katie

I think it's also important to say that internationals in Denmark have more voting power now than they ever have. So it will have an impact. It is important to educate yourself. There's a lot of information. But Last Week in Denmark has made it super easy, particularly the podcast. Give that a listen to really understand "What do these different parties mean?", and do, go out, and vote. You just show up, you'll figure it out. Start screaming if anyone asks too many questions, and then it'll be fine. Don't actually start screaming. That's just what I do.

Kalpita

Yeah. I mean, if you don't know a candidate, you can always just vote for a party that you closely resonate with. So that is also an option. It is a very, very simple process. You get a ballot at home. Sorry, you get a voting card at home, which you just need to take with your ID to the election center, which is probably a school close by in your area. And you just go in, cast a vote, and et voila, you're done. And by evening, you'll find out if the person you voted or the party you voted has come into power or not. Very, very important. We are almost 16% of the population, so we do have the power to make change because we are so many of us. And we all need to go out and practice that vote because our future, if we want to continue living in Denmark, depends on it. This is not coming in the next four years, so now is your chance.

Katie

Yay, voting power.

Kalpita

Yeah, how about that for optimism? Well, on another positive side, the Nationalbank, even if everything seems doom and gloom, people, Novo Nordisk has fired 5,000 people, Ørsted is taking a lot of our tax money from the government, and many others are also getting fired, unfortunately. But the Nationalbank has something else to say: The Danish Nationalbank, people, has said that it is... it is forecasting growth to 2% this year, which means jobs will rise and house prices will climb. But let's not focus on houses because jobs will rise, and that's more important. So, anyone who's feeling hopeless, the Nationalbank is here for you, but it also means that families will have more spending power, and there is a steady outlook, even if Novo Nordisk staff has been cut and there are trims and admin jobs and stuff like that, there is hope.

Katie

Absolutely. And I think that's so important. And thank you, Kalpita, for keeping this as an optimistic podcast. I think I so easily could have gone into,"Oh, what's happening? What's going on?" But you've kept me coming back up for air and being like, "Oh, yeah, okay, things aren't so bad. We live in Denmark, this is fine." But yeah, definitely seeing that... I suppose we've all seen all the articles about Novo Nordisk cutting so many jobs. Nykredit has cut jobs. And particularly like the tumultuous global environment as well, can just always make you be a bit like, "What's happening?". So to see people in banks who know numbers and can see these things coming from a mile away, saying that we are still expecting growth, I think, is a huge, huge positive. That, despite everything, Denmark is still going along. There will still be more jobs, there will be more spending power. And it's a steady outlook for the time to come. Which, honestly, thank God, I couldn't have taken any more negative news.

Kalpita

Yeah, I mean, it's... it's... I think the Novo thing was premeditated because not long ago, I think a day or two ago, there was an announcement of 100% tax on all medicinal products that were not produced in the US, that was announced. And that means that most Novo has the most produced non-US products that are sold in the US. So their decision of firing people was premeditated, so they could stay afloat and manage this because it will be a crisis for them in the long run, and they need to find different ways of sustaining in the US market and probably finding different markets so they can make up for it as well. That does not mean that firing 5,000 people was, or 9,000 people, globally, was a fair decision. It's never fun to be in that situation. But at the same time, we have to consider that it is a global company and it is making a big difference in people's lives. And that means that they need to find a way to continue doing that. Having said that, we have Ørsted, which won the case with the US government. Yeah. So now they are going back into the project that they were shut down for, for a little time, which means that Ørsted is back in business. It is one of their biggest projects, and if it had not come back, maybe the Nationalbank would have had some other words to share with us. But thanks to Ørsted and fighting that case, which we also discussed. Wasn't it you and I that discussed why Ørsted...? I don't think, maybe it was Golda. Yeah, I think it was Golda. We discussed about, you know, how much the government needs to support private companies and, is it good?, is it not good? And I think it turned out to be quite good. And it clearly shows that the government was trying to support them to make sure that this case went through and they had a positive outcome.

Katie

I also think anything that shows that the US is not this impenetrable force that we can't fight back is a good news story, because they like to think, particularly Mr. Trump thinks that he can do whatever he wants and no one's going to stop him. So to hear that this huge lawsuit and that Ørsted have won, it's just like, "Yes, win, win for everybody else."

Kalpita

Yeah, absolutely. So it is... I mean, we are not drowning, and we are not going to be in that position either with drones over our heads and Ørsted keeping Denmark afloat. I think we'll be good. We should strap in for a good winter.

Katie

Yeah. There you go. That's the Nationalbank and Kalpita saying, "It's gonna be fine. Don't worry about it."

Kalpita

Yeah, yeah. I mean, make sure you change your tires to winter tires. Maybe that, that could be a spoiler. They're making rules strict on that as well these days, so that people need to take more seriously than drones over your head.

Katie

Yeah, that's more of an immediate, when you get the big yellow slip in your windshield.

Kalpita

Yeah. Yeah.

Katie

You're gonna notice that a little more than a drone.

Kalpita

Yeah, I mean, I think that's my way of dealing with all of this, is just take one day at a time and, you know, think of what is the next thing I need to do. I want to have good meal, I want to go out and take a walk, and come Monday, I want to go back to work and have a good day at work. You know, that's going to keep me more optimistic, more positive, and not think about all the kinds of things that are going on, which I shouldn't be thinking about at all.

Katie

Yeah, there's people who are paid to think about that and deal with that. So we'll just. We'll stay back here, and I will get a fancy cake, and everything will be fine.

Kalpita

Oh, I wish I was in Aarhus. I could have some cake.

Katie

Oh, my God. This is an adorable place called gotfred. But they're actually closing tomorrow. But every, all of their cakes are so pretty. Like, they all look like they could be a fancy hat. So that's where I'm thinking of going once we're done here.

Kalpita

Oh, wow. Well, on that very sweet note, we shall end this podcast. Thank you for your time, Katie.

Katie

Yeah, thank you. Thank you for the great chats and all the optimism. We needed it, but I think you succeeded. Great podcast.

Kalpita

See you next time!

Katie

Bye.

Kalpita

Hey, this is Kalpita and Golda, co-hosts of the Last Week in Denmark podcast. Did you know, Last Week in Denmark offers sponsored content in the newsletter? Our reporters are producing original articles and content tailored for internationals in Denmark. So if you have a business our readers should know about, let us write about it. Get in touch with us at reporter@lwid.dk. You can also reach out to us on LinkedIn and Instagram @lastweekindenmark

People on this episode

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LWID

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Kalpita Bhosale

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Katie Burns

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