Last Week in Denmark

Danish Darkness, LGBT Marriage Rights and the Weird Cinnamon Tradition: LWID S4E17

• Season 4 • Episode 17

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Danish Winter Gloom,  LGBT News and Denmark’s Spiciest Tradition . This week, Fionn and Katie, two internationals making sense of life in Denmark, talk about the reality of the Danish winter darkness and how to cope with it, what the EU’s new same sex marriage ruling means in practice, and the surprising birthday custom that leaves 25 year olds covered in cinnamon. They also look at why Aalborg has built a dedicated “cinnamon pole” and uncover a few more unexpected Danish traditions along the way. 

Topics:

(01:30) How to cope with the Danish winter

(04:48) The Danish Darkness

(05:46) Danish study on darkness by Mette Hvass

(13:57) LGBT Marriage Rights

(22:09) Weird Danish Cinnamon Tradition

(24:33) Cinnamon pole in Aalborg

(27:31) The Danish Pepper Tradition


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Fionn: Hello, and welcome to the Last Week in Denmark podcast. Each week we talk through some of the top stories that happened last week in Denmark, and we focus on the impact they have on internationals living here. So if that sounds like you, or if you're thinking about moving here, well, then, as always, welcome home. You're in the right place and we're so glad that you're here. I'm Fionn O'Toole and joining me this week for episode 17 of season four is Katie Burns. This week we're going to be looking at how to live and cope with the Danish winter darkness, the EU requiring recognition of same sex marriages across borders, and, maybe an unusual story if you aren't familiar with this Danish tradition, but the city of Aalborg has created a cinnamon pole to stop messy birthday traditions. And if you're thinking we've just gone mad, we will explain what that means in a few moments. Before we get going, though, we'd love to ask you one thing. If the conversation this week, it sparks some interest with you, if it resonates, please share it with your friends, with your fellow internationals. You could screenshot this episode and share it on your social media. You can hit share directly from Spotify or Apple Podcasts if you're listening there. The thing is, we're here to help internationals in Denmark stay informed and feel connected. It's their home just as much as anyone else's. So thank you so much for helping us reach more internationals just like you. Hey, Katie, how are you?


Katie: Hi, Fionn. God, it's been so long. How are you doing? How are you coping with winter?


Fionn: I'm actually- You know what, today was a big day. I've been coping with the winter well, and one of the reasons why is I set myself a challenge earlier in this year to read 25 books this year. And today I was very happy. I finished my 25th book and I deliberately kept it, that it was going to be this book. It was a book my dad recently released, and I was really happy that I read 25 books, and it was my dad's book, and that was great. And then I counted up the books I'd read this year because I was trying to pick out, you know, what one's my favorite. And I realized I had read another book back in April that I hadn't counted. So I read 26 books. That's great. But my whole plan [laughs] to end with my own family's book wasn't, uh, wasn't achieved, but luxury bonds.


Katie: Oh, that's nice.


Fionn: How about you?


Katie: All good. Not a lot of new. I started a new job, which has taken up most of my time. And I've been in Copenhagen far too much. 


Fionn: Congratulations.


Katie: And as you know, Copenhagen is terrible [laughs]. Jylland! Jylland! 


Fionn: [Laughs]


Katie: But yeah, just busy, but grand. I've been trying. There's an ice cream store here. I don't know if they have one in Copenhagen, but they have six new Christmas flavors, and I've tried four. So they have pebernødder, the weird little biscuits.


Fionn: Yeah, pepper nuts? I know them well.


Katie: Then they have risalamande. There's one that's like very almond-marzipan, and there's one that's snowballs, which also has a lot of marzipan in it. 


Fionn: Okay.


Katie: And then I haven't tried the last ones, which are like the juleskum, which is that it's almost a marshmallow, not really a marshmallow, shaped like a scary Santa. And then there's one that's just pistachio and marzipan, because I think they ran out of Christmas flavors. I don't know why there's no æbleskiver, but.


Fionn: Yeah, that's, uh. That's-


Katie: Or gløgg.


Fionn: -definitely a miss. I mean, I was just thinking a gløgg ice cream. I love mince pies. And if you're not from the part of the world we're from and our neighboring countries, a mince pie is like a little mini short-crust pie that does not have mincemeat in it, despite the name. But it has like chopped up, caramelized, and sometimes slightly- 


Katie: It's like, jammy.


Fionn: -alcoholized fruits. And I will eat a dozen of those if I'm left unattended. But I have had mince pie ice cream last year, and I feel like a gløgg ice cream would be kind of the closest flavor profile equivalent to that.


Katie: Interesting.


Fionn: I'm very tempted to try it. You saying risalamande reminded me, I had my work's Danish julefrokost recently.


Katie: Ooh.


Fionn: It was held at the-


Katie: Did you win?


Fionn: Well, it was held at the zoo.


Katie: The zoo? That's fun.


Fionn: It was. They didn't let us go out to pet the animals, but it was midnight, so that's fair enough.


Katie: Waste of time.


Fionn: Yeah [laughs]. But with the risalamande, I thought I got the almond and I was really excited. And then I realized it was just a big clump of rice that had not cooked properly. 


Katie: [laughs]


Fionn: So that was slightly traumatic. But, you know, I'm sure that's also a Danish rite of passage.


Katie: Yeah, part of the tradition. Yes. [laughs]


Fionn: Well, I think we've already touched on it a little bit. It is dark. It is winter. And that's our first story this week. We are looking at some research that's been done, or some ideas being put forth by an outdoor lighting researcher, Mette Hvass from Aalborg University, who says that many of us, including yourself, have forgotten how to live with natural darkness, and we should learn how to do just that, and kind of rewrite what we use light for. I think for me, I mean we come from a place where it gets dark in the winter, but the Danish darkness is next level. I don't know, how do you find it? Do you find it affects your mood? Does the- I know for me the regular depression moves out and the seasonal depression moves in.


Katie: Yeah, I was shocked. I was shocked that it affected me so much, because I think Ireland is exactly the same in terms of numbers of hours of daylight. So we get the same amount of day, but here it's those two to three weeks where it'll just be solid gray. Like, you just don't see the sun. In Ireland, I feel like we get a winter sun in the morning, almost every day if it's not raining. But the never-ending dense grayness that's everywhere really, really gets to me. And I remember waking up one day, and walking out into my kitchen, and being like, I just had a moment where I felt like I was in monochrome because there was just, it was just gray coming in the window. And I was like, I don't, I don't understand what's happening. But yeah, seasonal depression 100%. I also was just so tired because I'm like, it doesn't feel like the day starts or ends, you just stay in nighttime.


Fionn: Yeah, I definitely feel that. And that was actually one of the points that Mette Hvass made in her study or her article. She was talking about one of the reasons that we actually feel tired, is because in winter also with the cold weather and everything, we're less active, so we're less likely to be going outside and I guess getting the blood pumping.


Katie: Definitely true.


Fionn: One thing she pointed out- So she went to Anholt, which if you don't know it, is a Danish island in the middle of the Kattegat. And it's pretty small. There's only around one hundred and fifty people who live there, and therefore it's one of the darkest places in Denmark. 


Katie: Oh God.


Fionn: I can see you looking rather disturbed. I'm thinking of, you know, the night sky. And actually, I was lucky enough recently to go to my in-laws' summer house which is in the south of Fyn one evening, actually. It was obviously very dark at night, and we were actually able to see the northern lights really, really well, which I'd never seen before. So that was nice.


Katie: I don't believe they're real. I think it's a myth. I don't believe you. You'll have to invite me to your in-laws' summer house so I can see them. 


Fionn: Ah, okay.


Katie: Until I see them, I don't believe they're real.


Fionn: That's fair. I would show you photos, but obviously that's a conspiracy as well.


Katie: They could be doctored. AI, etc.


Fionn: Yeah, absolutely. Artificial aurora. Well, one of the things that she came up with was four suggestions. Basically, after going on walks at night with the Anholt residents, she said there was four qualities of darkness that she thought we should learn from and embrace if we want to learn to kind of live with it ourselves. One of those was the relaxing effect of darkness. The next was that it enhances interaction with others. Then there was, it provides a different nature experience. And lastly, it gives access to the other senses. And the thing is, a lot of these I would agree with. I think, you know, that the dark, it can be somewhat relaxing, especially maybe if you're inside, you know, looking out, having a nice cozy environment. It definitely provides a different nature experience. Case in point, getting to see the aurora. Even if, just like the moon landing, some people believe it's fake [laughs]. And it certainly engages your other senses. But the thing that it can enhance interaction with others, I was thinking, that's maybe something that internationals don't feel as much. I feel like maybe the cold, winter dark is very good for Danes to enhance their interaction with others because they're hygge-ing at home with family or with close friends. And I don't know, but sometimes I felt as an international, it's kind of harder in the winter months to get people to go out and socialize because they are at home, you know, lighting some candles. Have you found the same?


Katie: Yeah. I also, like when you think about it, when I was at home in Ireland- and I think it's part of why Irish people are miserable during the winter- is we don't really change our socializing. Like, we just go out, and we're mad about it, and we're cold, and it's wet, and nothing is heated properly. So we're just angry all the time. And I think that's a really big difference here where- And that's one of the reasons I came to Denmark, because I was very suspicious. I was like, you have shit weather, we have shit weather. Why are you so happy? 


Fionn: [laughs]


Katie: And then- But they really embrace the darkness. So it is like in Aarhus anyway, when the summer comes, there's a festival every other weekend. 


Fionn: Mhm.


Katie: There's so much going on. Like it's so overwhelming. And then you hit mid-October and nothing happens and everything is done. Someone said there was a gelato place that used to be across the road from me, and they would close from October to April. And there's actually, there's a water sports place across from me. I live near the sea. So it does make sense that they close some of these things. But they close from October to March. So, this idea of just going inside, and being inside, and not forcing yourself to go out into this cold, miserable kind of world is very like, oh, I guess we don't have to do the same things. 


Fionn: [Laughs]


Katie: I guess we could stay in and talk to each other or invite people over. And this idea of like making dinner together or playing board games, it feels very like stuck in time. But it's perfect for when it's terrible out. And it never occurred to me until I came here. And I do think adjusting your behavior according to the weather does make a really big difference, both to kind of connect with people and kind of get cozy like it is. There's nothing cozier than when it's freezing cold outside, and raining, and you're in your nice, warm, you know, lit by a probably too-expensive lamp in the corner with your friends, drinking something warm and strange that has a lot of cinnamon in it for no reason. So I do see why they don't hate the winter as much as we do. For sure.


Fionn: I definitely get it. I still though, thinking about this list, I had to come up with my own alternate list. And I'm going to give this away for free on this podcast because that's just the sort of-


Katie: Oh my gosh, such a bargain.


Fionn: -wonderful person I am. Yeah. So I have four reasons that's going to help me cope with the winter and the darkness. One of them is the appreciation of the seasons. Actually seeing some noticeable change. And not only that it is gray every day, but getting to see those first snows- nice on the first day, terrible for the rest of the week. But you know, getting to see frost forming on the grass outside-


Katie: Crunchy leaves.


Fionn: -a little change and marking the, yeah, changing of the year. I like that. That's one. That's maybe the most poetic that I'm going to get with this, I promise. Because the next is not suffering the kind of dissonance and discombobulation you get when you leave a bar after drinking, maybe some after work drinks. And you go out and it's still sunshine. 


Katie: That's true.


Fionn: I always feel there's a sense of shame there-


Katie: [Laughs]


Fionn: -that, you know, other people are still out and about. Somebody's taking their kids for an evening cycle and they don't do that as often. Or you can at least hide in the darkness a little bit more. On the flip side, number three for me is being able to see the sunrise without having to get up at 5am.


Katie: Mm, that's true. 


Fionn: I actually think it's quite nice at the moment, that as I'm heading into work, you know, the sun is rising over the harbor, and yeah, I get to appreciate that while not having a lie in, but still getting up at a more reasonable time. And then lastly, is getting to wear your Christmas jumper or getting to put up Christmas lights and not looking completely insane. Because whenever I do that throughout other times of the year, people tend to look at me quite funny.


Katie: I imagine you have a reputation, wherever you live.


Fionn: Yeah, that's fair. Not only for the Christmas lights, but as a general pest, I think.


Katie: Oh, my God, I love that. I think I don't have four, but off the top of my head I would say æbleskiver and gløgg because they're warm, and they are only around this time of year. I would also say avoiding people, because I get to be indoors, so I don't have to be as social, and I don't have to make as many excuses. And, oh, I did have another one, but I've lost it now. But I'm sure it was extremely witty, so we can all just assume it was very, very funny.


Fionn: Pause here for laughter.


Katie: Oh, I have my SAD lamp. And also, actually I've been taking this thing called- a friend recommended to me. It's magnesium glycinate. Now, firstly, I took the magnesium cyanate and it's meant to help you with sleeping, and it really, really helps. But when it's the cyanate one, it is in fact a laxative, so don't take that one. But the glycinate is a great time. And that's been really helping me sleep, and I am enjoying the kind of coziness moreso because it kind of like chills you out. So, yeah, thank you for holding in your laughter. 


Fionn: That's, uh-


Katie: I did, however, the only problem I had with this article was, was like, okay, I first saw it and I yeah, yeah, yeah, it's dark, whatever, we will all get SAD lamps. But then, when I read through that kind of, you know, learn to embrace the darkness, learn to be friends with it. And I think the researcher herself is afraid of the dark. So she was kind of curious about how she could kind of move through that. I will say, though, as a woman, when it's dark, it is less safe. So that alone, I think, is also something that was kind of overlooked. But I accept the premise of we need to be friends with the dark.


Fionn: That's- I think that's fair. And, I mean, maybe you go down the path even more, you eventually become a ninja, and the darkness is not only your friend, but your ally. But, you know, that's just a bit of career advice. I'm really handing out good wisdom for today.


Katie: [Laughs] Oh, my God. It's too- We can change the podcast to an advice column and you do wonders.


Fionn: Yeah, I think the legal repercussions would be too harsh, too quickly. 


Katie: [Laughs] 


Fionn: But speaking of legal changes, and probably a major tone shift for what we've just been talking about.


Katie: Beautiful segue.


Fionn: Thank you. Slightly more serious note. I think on Tuesday, I believe it was, November the 25, whatever day that was, the EU's highest court, the EU Court of Justice, ruled that same-sex marriages must be respected throughout the bloc. And it actually rebuked Poland for refusing to recognize a marriage between two of its citizens that had taken place in Germany. Is this something you came across during the week or were aware of?


Katie: Yes, as you and our listeners may or may not know, I am a giant lesbian. So I do tend to keep track of all things LGBT that are floating around the world. And I think this was great. I think it's such a- I'm a little like, why did it take so long? But we won't dwell on that. It's like, great, fantastic this came up, and the law in Europe is very much down to cases, so it's kind of setting precedence. It's like, okay, now we have this. So not only have they said the marriages must legally be respected in different countries, but also now, if anybody else tries to not respect the legality of those marriages, then there is a good case foundation that people can rely on, and that that's going to be okay. It's not like America, they were like, no, we're going to take that back now. Don't worry about it. So I think that's really, really amazing. But I also, I think it's one of these things that I think a lot of people will be surprised that that's not already a thing. 


Fionn: Mm.


Katie: And I think there's often a lot of people- And a lot of my friends, a lot of my straight friends, they don't have an awareness, and that no one's going like, oh, why is there a pride parade? But there is a bit of like, oh, but people have the same rights and all that kind of thing now. And it's like, no, they really don't. So I'm going to share a few fun facts here.


Fionn: Please do.


Katie: So there are five countries in the world where being gay is still illegal. Sometimes, it's just old legislation that hasn't been updated, but the death penalty could be applied. Luckily, those countries tend to be anti-woman as well as anti-gay. So I'm not really missing out. But there's other people who are more in danger, obviously. Also, same-sex marriage is only legally recognized in 38 countries in the world. 


Fionn: Wow. 


Katie: So a shift like this, kind of making sure that a whole area respects that this is legal, and it's legal, whether you move around-


Fionn: Mm.


Katie: -is a huge, huge deal. And I would assume in terms of legalities, making a type of history that the EU is enforcing, it's a bit like them kind of going, this is a human right, people should be allowed. While it is very exciting, I do love to kind of rain on parades as well, is that it's not really enough in the sense that you can kind of go like, oh, this is amazing news, but say we had the same-sex marriage referendum in Ireland in 2016-


Fionn: 2015. 


Katie: And even though- 2015? I think it was 2016.


Fionn: It was 2015 because I was still allowed to vote and having left Ireland in 2014, so I was still within the legal period.


Katie: Ah. Did you have to go home to vote?


Fionn: I did, I did.


Katie: We all did, didn't we? But anyway, that went through fantastic. Yay, happy days. But they still have not updated the legislation around child adoption. 


Fionn: Mm.


Katie: So if I was with my partner and she had a baby biologically, I would have to wait till the baby is two and then adopt the baby. 


Fionn: Okay. 


Katie: I can't be the legal parent. Whereas in Denmark, they have this really, really sophisticated system where I fill out a form.


Fionn: Ooh.


Katie: And then I'm just the other mother.


Fionn: It sounds very complicated. Like a lot of-


Katie: I know, I bet you can see why it hasn't moved across borders.


Fionn: Yeah, this new technology.


Katie: So it's that kind of like-


Fionn: Forms. 


Katie: Yeah, it's crazy. I just, whoo. And someone printed it for me, so, like, it's going to be fine. Yeah, it's crazy. But yeah. So this is a good start. And I like as well that there's- Maybe it will catch a few people off guard to be like, oh, has this been a problem? Is this something that someone had to do? And it's like, yes, but there is also so much more.


Fionn: Yeah. And I think one thing that's important to clarify for our listeners as well, this ruling is not legalising same-sex marriage in every country in the EU. But what it is doing is making sure that countries that do not currently recognize it, have to recognise the marriage. So somebody, in this case, two Polish men who were married in Berlin in 2018, their marriage has to be treated like any other people moving back to Poland or moving to Poland's marriage would be treated. What I thought was quite interesting, was in the way the court framed it. The court said Poland had been wrong not to recognize this, and that it infringes not only the freedom to move and reside, and of course that's, you know, one of the four kind of pillars of the EU is freedom of movement, but also the fundamental right to respect privacy and family life. So I thought that was quite an interesting way, not only of- I mean, yes, they're framing it as a rights issue, but they weren't only framing it as an LGBT issue. But actually, this infringes the other kind of core fundamental rights within the EU as well. I mean, this is definitely a huge step forward, it's a historic ruling. But there are still quite a few countries in Europe and in the EU who, as you said, do not recognise it, Poland being one of them. Although, Donald Tusk's government is trying to bring legislation through, but is kind of struggling with their conservative coalition partners as well. The march of progress is never done. But I think this is an important step. Hopefully it is not a box-ticking exercise, as you sometimes see, and it is the first of more steps to come afterwards. But, yeah, I think it's a wonderful step. And as it says, the fact that it wasn't recognized before could create serious disadvantages, both administrative, professional, and private, by forcing spouses to live as unmarried people in their member state of origin. And as somebody who is not currently married yet, but has kids and a long term partner, that is sometimes something that weighs on me, right. You have to be very clear with the will and everything what happens in case one partner dies. 


Katie: Mm.


Fionn: And that's often way less complicated with marriage. So I think it just is such a fundamental thing, right, to treat people equally. And in this case, hopefully that goes a large step to completing that.


Katie: Yeah. It's also kind of another moment to kind of just be like, ah, it's nice to live in Denmark, because this just isn't an issue in a lot of ways, like in the sense that you can get married, but also there's no- I think when you do your will, there's no specification of gender or anything. It's just like this person gets everything that I want. This is great. And then also, I don't know about Denmark, but in Ireland when you're married you get quite a lot of tax benefits. So, there's things like that to kind of...


Fionn: It's funny, I met my partner in Switzerland, and we had our first child in Switzerland as well. And then, we had to jump through many, many hoops to show that we weren't married. Well, one, because we weren't married and because we were internationals, although we weren't referred to that in such nice terms [laughs] by the Swiss authorities, we were treated almost like criminals. They would not recognize that he was my son, despite the fact that there was no contestation around this. I was [laughs] there the whole time, from the start to the finish. And I was there in the delivery ward, and you could just look at this baby, and he was so clearly, like, same face. It was freakish.


Katie: Big Irish head on him.


Fionn: Really. Yeah, genuine, like, no, no, no, he's not your son. We- you can recognize him, but it was almost like I was trying to adopt him. And then they also debated that he shouldn't be marked down as having Irish citizenship on his birth certificate, despite being entitled to that automatically, because he was not born to an Irish citizen, but he was now being recognized to an Irish citizen. It was a lot of hoops. But the reason we had to prove that we weren't married was because in Switzerland there was a tax benefit of not being married, because the married spouse only got 80% of their tax credits instead of the 100% that you would each get. 


Katie: Interesting. 


Fionn: So that was maybe you could say a less progressive system of doing things. So I'm also quite happy that I live here in Denmark instead. 


Katie: Yay, Denmark!


Fionn: Well, one key thing that the Danes love to celebrate is- And speaking of marriage, it is turning 25 and not being married. 


Katie: Crazy.


Fionn: And there is a certain ritual that if you live in Copenhagen like I do now, you may not be familiar with. But as our Jylland correspondent, would you like to fill us in on what that is?


Katie: I would be honoured. We, of course, have this time-honored tradition from, I presume, hundreds and hundreds of years, where if you reach the age of 25 and you are not married- Crazy. In this day and age, I know, particularly if you're from the countryside, apparently. You will be tied to a lamppost and the people who love you most in your life will throw cinnamon at you. No, I do not mean a shaker of cinnamon or just like a sprinkle here and there. You will be so entirely doused in cinnamon, that all of your skin will burn, it will get in your eyes, it will get into every orifice.


Fionn: Yikes.


Katie: This is something that has been causing trouble, I think, all over the city, but in particularly the area where I live on Aarhus Ø. We live near the sea, and it's kind of an area where there's quite a lot of young people, there's some students, but a lot of older people have bought their apartments here as kind of, like, their retirement plan. And I would say every other week during the summer, there was someone complaining about the huge piles of cinnamon all over the streets. This is very upsetting for some people. Even though I'm like, you definitely did this when you were younger. [Laughs]


Fionn: Absolutely. Yeah. It's something- I turned 25 when I lived in Switzerland, but I was working for a Danish company, and most of my friends were Danes at the time, so I had a very, very mild version. But I felt honoured that I got cinnamon thrown at me. And then a few years later, I moved Denmark. And when I moved to Denmark, I didn't move to a big city. I moved to a very small city in Sønderjylland. I was walking down the street once and there was a bench. And, you know how, like in a cartoon when somebody hits a wall really hard and there's a hole where you can see the outline of their body? There was basically that. There was the outline of somebody's body sitting on this bench, and the rest of the bench was entirely cinnamon coated. And very often, I don't know if they do this in Nordjylland, but they throw water as well to really get the cinnamon to stick.


Katie: Make sure it sticks. You can't get rid of it.


Fionn: Yeah. And it was then fairly common that I would see a lamppost where clearly somebody had been doused. Well, in the city of Aalborg, there is a housing association called the Himmerland Housing Association, which owns several hundred youth housing units. And as you may imagine, the youth might be the ones turning 25 eventually. And it's been a bit of a challenge because they have a lot of cinnamon. So they have dedicated- They have transformed a basketball hoop into a cinnamon colored metal pole, and they've given it the best name. They have called it the Kanelstang, which means cinnamon stick. 


Katie: [Laughs]


Fionn: It's also the name of a sweet treat I like to order in the bakery sometimes. I think this is quirky, but I love it. And the thing I maybe love the most about this whole story is that when I first read it on the DR's website, I, as I often do when researching this, used Google's wonderful Translate extension for Chrome. So it was automatically running. It translated the headline, maybe not in the most fluent way, you could say. So here's the literal translation that Google Translate gave me: No more brown garbage at lampposts. Birth attendants are tied to cinnamon sticks.


Katie: [Laughs] Well, that says it all.


Fionn: Yeah, I reading it thought maybe I was having a bit of a stroke, but thankfully, no, it worked out. But I just, I love the article and clearly this is a problem that this person faces. They're the one that has to often clean up the cinnamon. But they're describing it as, like, we are very challenged by the fact that they were using lampposts in the area. And I think, just the idea of anybody or any organization being very challenged by cinnamon, of all things, is just something that makes me giggle inside.


Katie: I think when you hear about it- Cause you're like, all right, that's kind of weird. But I think, first of all, it's hard to imagine when you haven't seen it, just how much cinnamon is involved-


Fionn: Yeah.


Katie: -but also how hard it is to clean. So, as I said, it happens a lot in the area where I live and people often get upset about it, but it's never been properly removed. So there's just these like lines of brown next to the lampposts. And then every now and then you kind of walk outside and it smells like a cheap version of the Christmas Yankee candle. 


Fionn: [Laughs]


Katie: That's cinnamon. And you're just like, oh, no, someone else has turned 25. Or I know, I've seen people complaining because there's a lot of those kind of stairs into the sea near me, which is very nice. I never use them, but other people do. But they were saying when you get cinnamon, when you walk through the cinnamon, they are wet, so they can't get it off. And then it stings if you have any open wounds, a bit like lemon if you get that on like a paper cut. They're also saying that it can make dogs very sick. 


Fionn: Oh dear. 


Katie: So dogs, like, lick it up and then their little dogs are getting very- There's only small dogs on the island, so they're the ones that are suffering from the cinnamon. But yeah, I have seen it happening and it is just like, oh, it looks like a crime, but it's cinnamon. Should I do something? And people are proper taped to the pole. 


Fionn: Yeah.


Katie: You can't get away from the lamppost. And it's like, what if they leave them there? How does this end?


Fionn: The two kind of variations on this as well. One is, of course, if you turn 30 and you're not married, it's then pepper which is thrown at you. And I did turn 30 in Denmark, and I was unmarried, and my colleagues did throw a lot of pepper, but thankfully, they did it more in a metaphorical sense. And I just had a lot of little sachets of pepper thrown on my desk-


Katie: [Laughs]


Fionn: -and some, like, red bell peppers as well-


Katie: That is hilarious.


Fionn: -which was a bit of a stretch. But then also in, I know in certain parts of Denmark, not only is there, you know, you're tied to a pole and cinnamon thrown at you, but people take like oil drums or barrels and make, I want to say a tower, but if we're very honest, it's more of a penis. Or more of a penile construction that goes in people's front gardens, typically their parents' front gardens. Yeah. That's thankfully also not something I've seen around my neighborhood. Safety hazard, obviously [laughs]. But yeah, odd traditions. I'm sure there's some wonderful old pagan connection to fertility and birthdays. I don't know. 


Katie: God.


Fionn: But listen, every culture has its quirks, right?


Katie: Yeah, it's tradition, so you can't argue about it. It's just tradition. It's like a cat in the barrel for Fastelavn.


Fionn: We come from a country where there's a town where every year they have a fair, and they capture a wild goat, and make it the king of the town, and then elect an eight-year-old girl to be the queen, and she marries the goat in a non-binding ceremony. So, I don't think we can really cast aspersions on the Danes for their-


Katie: But lately people have been very worried about the goat and the goat's safety. So we're growing as a people. 


Fionn: Okay. 


Katie: But they still elect the goat.


Fionn: Yeah. No worries about the girl.


Katie: Yeah, she's fine.


Fionn: Yeah, exactly. Well, on that note, I think that's about all we have time for today. Katie, it's been an absolute pleasure talking about ways to endure the Danish darkness, and the EU making a step in terms of progress and equality, and cinnamon and the dangers, or lack thereof of turning 25 in Denmark.


Katie: I think the cinnamon topic is my favorite topic we've ever done. It's been a good time. Thanks, Fionn.


Fionn: I don't know, I don't think anything will ever top the Denmark's national fish vote. And the eels didn't win.


Katie: No they didn't. They were robbed.


Fionn: Yeah, they were absolutely robbed. So, you know, maybe this is the genesis of a new campaign to overturn the result. 2026: Bring the eels back to glory. And with that, we will just say a huge thank you for listening to our audience. Thank you so much to our podcast manager, our editors, and the whole team of people who help get this out across socials, the websites, transcripts, you name it. We are backed by such a wonderful crew of talented volunteers. And have a wonderful week ahead. Katie, it's been a pleasure having a chat with you.


Katie: You too. Talk to you soon. Bye.


Fionn: Bye bye. Did you know that the Last Week in Denmark newsletter is available in eight languages? Hey there, this is Fionn from the Last Week in Denmark podcast. And every week you guys are tuning in to hear me and my fellow co-hosts talk about the top news of the week in English. But let's be real. Well, we're all internationals, so not only are you speaking English every day, you're probably also speaking a bit of Danish. But you've probably also got your own native language as well, like the multilingual master you are. So why not treat yourself to the luxury of being able to read Danish news each week in your own native language? So head on over to lastweekdk.substack.com that's last weekdk.substack.com and sign up for our newsletter, delivered to you every single Sunday.



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LWID

Host
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Fionn O'Toole

Guest
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Katie Burns

Guest