Last Week in Denmark

Denmark Identity Fight, Hormuz Prices & Danish Power Games: LWID S5E14

• Season 5 • Episode 14

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Belonging in Denmark, Price Pressure & Power Games: Narcis and Robin take on the row over who gets to be called Danish, the economic nerves triggered by the Hormuz Strait crisis, and the coalition manoeuvring around Lars Løkke, Mette Frederiksen and the dropped wealth tax, with a clear focus on what each fight could mean for internationals trying to build a stable life in Denmark. 

Topics: 

(01:01) Are you Danish if you can drink milk?

(10:15) Oil crisis

(18:23) Coalition talks

(23:29) Danish traditions

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Narcis
Hello everyone. Welcome back to Last Week in Denmark podcast. You probably hopefully remember me. I'm Narcis. I have with me a new voice. It's actually someone coming from our team, the person who takes care of making sure you have interesting guests to listen to. Hello, Robin. Welcome to the show.

Robin
Hello, Narcis.

Narcis
So you're now in the seat of a co-host. You have to entertain our audience with your opinions and with your jokes or life lessons. How do you feel being in this position now?

Robin
Good. I'm happy. Joined Last Week in Denmark team about a year ago or so, but as a guest coordinator, so I was basically taking care of new guests to appear on the podcast. So I was reaching out to different people and yeah, I'm happy to try it out for once today.

Narcis
That's fantastic, Robin. What we gonna be talking today? It's very simple. The debate that's Taken Denmark by wildfire. If you drink milk, you are Danish, to simplify it. So Robin, do you drink milk?

Robin
I do. I'm drinking mostly oat milk though. Does that count?

Narcis
Oh goodness, no. A true Danish has to be close to the farmlands. That's where its power comes from. So if it's not pure—

Robin
Raw?

Narcis
People drink still raw milk? Raw milk from the cow. Then, because if it was already filtered, then all that enzymes been, you know-

Robin
Doesn't count. 

Narcis
-Yeah. Yeah. They're not the same. I'm just actually curious if a Dane, a perceived Dane would get a glass of raw milk to, to try to prove its Danishness. How will that work out? You think in 2026 as a science communicator, you would know.

Robin
Exactly. I don't know how they would like it. We should do like a blind test or so with, with all of us, like having a, having raw milk next to whatever we buy in the supermarket.

Narcis
But are you allowed to buy raw milk? I know in some countries it's illegal actually.

Robin
No. Yeah, exactly. I guess so.

Narcis
I never seen raw milk in Denmark. I mean, I remember raw milk because when I was a child, I actually had a cow and I actually seen milking a cow live and actually drink that milk without being pasteurized and going through all sorts of strange chemical reactions.

Robin
Did you became Danish?

Narcis
Did I became Danish from it? No, God, no. I became what I was to begin with, European. For me, that's very important and that's enough, to be honest. I never been such a huge— I'd never been hung up on the idea that I must become Danish. I need to be Danish. I must be seen and perceived as Danish. For me, I, as a European, I never had a need to add another national layer. I already have one national layer. Which is Romanian. I have multiple ethnic layers based on my DNA test. I have at least 16 different DNA ethnic backgrounds. Yay. Culturally, I am God knows what, because our dinners are mostly Italian and Spanish. So does that make us Italian-Spanish? I don't know. What do I like to watch? I read South Korean manhwa and I watch South Korean shows. Am I culturally becoming more South Korean? I watched anime like crazy during my youth time. Does that make me Japanese? I'm just wondering like where is the line like that defines you? I mean, Robin, what are you culturally? Are you culturally what?

Robin
Just like you, I'm a global society, right? I cannot think of my childhood upbringing without American TV series and stuff like that. That's how you learn English when you grow up in Belgium. I cannot think of myself as only being Belgian. I really grew up in a European context, so in which you get all these products from all over the world and you tune it to the way that you, that you look at the world. But other than that, I would say I'm European, definitely moving to Denmark. I meet a lot of, meet a lot of people from different countries and you have immediately this connection with a lot of other Europeans, bring actually being brought up in a very similar way. So yeah, being in Denmark didn't really, doesn't really change my, I don't know where I feel that I come from.

Narcis
Yeah, I think for us as Europeans, it's a bit different, and that's why I feel like the whole international perspective is a bit different depending if you're European or non-European, because for us as Europeans, at least even within Europeans, there's layers, but for us as Europeans, at least the ones who are awakened to the idea of being European, it doesn't matter. Today I move to Spain, it does make no difference. Tomorrow I move to Italy, makes no difference. Next day I move to France, it makes no difference. I think that's the case for me. I, when I came to Denmark, day one, I was like, I'm home. Point. I need to adapt, integrate, all that stuff. No, I'm home. It's just an expansion of my home. It's what, it's 24 hours away from where I live, where I was born by car, not by plane, of course. So it, it's for me that, that was very simple, but I understand that there is also the Europeans who never awakened to the idea of being European, right? They never had this layer or this added layer of their identity. So I can see that they are trying so hard to become Danish or to be perceived as Danish. Their children know only Danish. The names of their children are in Danish. Can you imagine that? So they basically let go completely of their own identity and just immerse themselves into this, into the Danish culture. So for me, I find that very strange. It's their choice, fine. But find it that we should try to be true to ourselves and not try to mold too much.

Robin
Yeah, that's true. But it's also, it's of course in a society where this Danishness is also has a high value and is, is also put in the backdrop of, of a lot of different other nationalities. Danes are proud of being Danish and, and wanting to become part of it sometimes maybe even subconsciously pushes you into the direction of, okay, I want to become part of this and also feel the same pride.

Narcis
But imagine those people now, how do they feel? Because for me, this whole Danishness debate is funny. It's just pure joy and fun. But people who actually try to fit in and try to get this label of Danish, they must feel horrified. They must feel like someone has pulled the rug from under them. Oh God, all the sacrifices I have made. I had to forget who I am. Reinvent myself so I can belong to this new label. And now what? Now they're just telling me that they will test my genetics to see if I actually am belonging to this place.

Robin
I think there are different levels of integration, right? I might give my kids a Danish name one day, but yeah.

Narcis
Okay.

Robin
And maybe it's a bit more like nuanced for different people living in Denmark.

Narcis
Let's hope so.

Robin
Yeah.

Narcis
Yeah. I mean, of course it's nuanced right now. Basically we're taking the extremes, bringing into the light. And to be honest, that's what everyone is doing. There's a couple of people who decided to act upon this whole biological racism and try to push on it. Because basically what happened the moment Nadja Isaksen has said that phrase, right, that if a cat is born in a horse stall, it doesn't become a horse. That moment when she said that, literally out of nowhere, so many debaters came on TV, on radio. Oh yeah, I can understand where she comes from. Yeah, why are we hiding? Ethnic Danes should be the ones who own the tag Danish, right? And what is ethnic Dane and so on. So that just took like a huge doo doo doo doo doo. And I was like, okay, fine. You want your tag Danish to be just yours. Okay. But then let's make an agreement. What is to be Danish and what is to belong to Denmark? And let's split those two things, right? So, okay. You do not have to be Danish to belong to Denmark. If we agree on that statement together, we are compromising, right? So then I don't need to become Danish to belong to Denmark, and you don't need to include me in your Danishness. You are Danish, I am not, but we together form the people of Denmark. Isn't that a good compromise?

Robin
Yeah, yeah, exactly. I think also, I mean, what we see as being Danish, we shouldn't forget how recent all of that history is like cultural things that we link with the idea of being Danish. All of that is maybe 100, 200 years old. Yeah.

Narcis
If so, because culture changes with every generation. I'm looking at the children on the street when they pass by my house and they speak English more than actual Danish. Sometimes I talk to the people in Danish and they're like, what is this word? And I'm like, this is words that are in Danish. And I'm like, why don't you understand this? And yeah, but that's not how we talk. And so that's literally how those words are being used. Like for me it was so funny because I learned a Danish that is a political Danish because I come from a political background and my only time I used to speak Danish was when I was in political meetings, when I had to keep a speech in Danish and so on. I never actually used Danish in a casual context because I never had to with who the hell I speak casual with. So every single way of me talking Danish was political Danish, which means very elevated Danish in a way because you have to know fancy words and whatnot, at least in the eyes of the normal people. So whenever I try to have a conversation with a Dane and I switch to that political Danish, they are like, what are you talking about? What is this? Funny for me to see that. That's just ridiculous. But we are going into the sides. The reason why we are here today is to talk about the weekly news. And yes, this whole debate with the milk glass is fun. It's fun to watch, but horrible because it can be dangerous as hell if it actually spirals into some sort of a bigger, let's just say, effect on society. Luckily, even the right-wing parties are rejecting the whole debate. So there is not much, let's just say, support among the parties more to the right, which is fantastic to see. So in the end, it stays in the fringe and probably, hopefully, it'll die in the fringe. But let's see where this debate goes forward. And let's move on to something else. The whole situation created by the oil crisis, right? By the Hormuz Strait. Things are getting expensive. I wanted to build a greenhouse and then the construction materials just say, oh, 20% higher. And now I'm like, okay, so I don't build anything this year. So how long should I wait? Robin, were you planning to do anything that, uh, did anything from your current plans got changed because of the situation created artificially by our friend over the sea?

Robin
I didn't really notice so much, to be honest. I'm biking to work and, and using trains for long distance travel in Europe. Not much has been changed there. Yeah.

Narcis
Were you there in the train market, train Armageddon that was last week?

Robin
No.

Narcis
No, like a whole day, all trains stopped, just simply stopped for 24 hours.

Robin
Okay, amazing.

Narcis
Yeah, not so amazing for the thousands of people who couldn't get home. Right now it's hard to rely on trains anymore, but so far you don't feel like you were affected by the whole situation in the Hormuz Strait.

Robin
No, not at all. But it seems also that this is— economy is doing still quite well in Denmark, so we don't feel it so much. I heard that our wages are also like— Danish wages are in general also getting increased. We don't notice the real difference that is, um, that is by oil prices going up.

Narcis
I, I think there's actually a few chief economists who came out and said, people, stop freaking out. Yes, there is a price increase, but there is a very small price increase because think about it, inflation compared to last year, it's 1.2%. At worst, it'll get to 2%, far from the times of close to 10%, right? If you don't remember those times. And at the same time, yeah, real wage increases 3, 3.5% in average. And even for people on unemployment benefits, there's an increase of 4.5% in their income. So technically we should be richer at the end of this year. No matter how bad the economy goes, of course it can go really bad. What happen is that actually what could happen that will make go really bad. But have you seen the latest news? The, they managed to reopen the, and they finally have some sort of a deal in place. Let's await that. You don't wanna trust anything until you see it for 2 weeks.

Robin
What I'm gonna do is I'm not gonna open my news app every hour and just wait in a month from now and then see what has happened there. Because you see statements getting thrown out one way and the end or the other the whole time. It seems that it's going on the better hand, but let's see.

Narcis
In the end, we're talking about a self-induced economic crisis in the entire world, and nobody wants that. No political leader. For God's sake, the other day, the 49 leaders, at the request of France and UK, gathered and said, okay, you know what, you guys can shoot yourself as much as you want, but we will be using the strait, and we will just use our own military ships, and we will just guard the hell out of our civil transport ships and you know what, we will just take what we need out of there because it's terrible what's happening. And if there's one thing that's happening in Europe, because you have heard we have 6 weeks left of jet fuel, for God's sake. But the worst, the other thing is that Europe is still in a better position. The poorer parts of the world are full, are already hit by fully frontal right now. And we are not talking much about it, but they're really, really suffering already in there. This was stupid to begin with. It went back. To where it started, and it'll take months for us to get back the prices that were before the war. So the whole thing was induced by actions. There's no logic to the whole thing. I mean, do you have shares? Yeah. So how much have you lost this year?

Robin
That is something that I'm not, that I don't wanna look at.

Narcis
You avoided the whole year to look at your shares.

Robin
No, no, but I actually, it took already a long time. I, I bought it. I bought a bunch of shares just before the war in Ukraine hit. So I was happy to see that steadily growing back onto the, to the same level. Now I don't want to look at it. I'm trying really to avoid it because for me, these shares is also something that I see as a, on a very long term. So of course I see them going down, but it's not something that I'm going to check every day to see what is happening because that can only stress us out. And that's the whole point why now a lot of people are freaking out. While they don't see their wages going up as much as they feel this economic crisis. It's a psychological effect of loss aversion. If we lose 10 kroner, we feel it much harder than if we win 10 kroner randomly. So the same effect, even though it might be a net gain that we, that people might be seeing on their bank account this year, it doesn't always feel like that. And that's because the scary news gets to us a bit easier.

Narcis
I mean, imagine that I curate news every evening and to be honest that I had moments when I was like, goddammit, I need to stop. Investing, like building, or I have a company, have employees. I was like, okay, so maybe this is the year where we cut back on the number of employees. We have fewer employees moving forward. If you were looking at it just by blocking that damn strait, it was such much doom and gloom coming economically towards us. I was like, okay, this is a year where we just, you know, hunker down, money as much. We probably not gonna have much economic activity and we wait. We wait for something to happen, but hopefully they will not, because what I'm thinking is that there's too many people that stand to lose too much money to allow the situation to go on forever. Exactly. So that's my hope is that there's too many rich people out there who'll be too pissed off to be like, hey, wait, I'm losing money every day because of these stupid games that you're playing. You know what? I have enough power and money to exterminate you. So stop now. We don't have that kind of power.

Robin
I agree. I have good faith in that this will get resolved sooner rather than later, but in which way and when, I think we should just be, I mean, we cannot do anything else than wait from a distance and be patient in this.

Narcis
I mean, we just should be positive, to be honest. I starting to find reasoning that I shouldn't prepare for the worst because the worst will never come. I should just be continuing and believing that the economy will keep growing. We are in the, one of the most strong economies in, in, in Europe. And probably the world, and things are going fine. So you shouldn't be afraid as an entrepreneur to make projects, to invest, to buy stuff, to grow. Don't let the geopolitics stop you from progressing and actually use the geopolitics to your advantage. I mean, right now it's a very trendy time to start new businesses. I don't know, for example, to be a drone operator in Denmark, it costs to make a course €5,000 to learn to be a drone operator. Go and start a course for drone operators. There is not such thing. You have to go to Germany to learn to be a drone operator. If any of you get such a, go to Germany, learn how to be a drone operator, come to Denmark, teach us and sell the course €5,000 a piece. You can make a hell of a lot of money just by doing that. There is so much money to be made out there. If you just open your eyes to the opportunities and to see what movements are there in society and how you can actually use a good crisis to your advantage. That should be the entrepreneurial mind.

Robin
If I had more time, Narciss, you have too much work already.

Narcis
Yeah, yeah, I know. Like every time I see like an idea, like an opportunity, I'm like regretting that I don't have any more left time to do it. And I'm like, just if I could just know a few more people that I could just tell them, here's an idea, go find, go have fun with it. Give me 10% and I'm happy with it. Actually, I was laughing at some point that I would like to create a school of CEOs, a school of future CEOs where we just train them to be implementers and we just give them the ideas to work on.

Robin
I can see you becoming like a venture capitalist and in 10 years from now.

Narcis
Can you imagine a social democrat as a venture capitalist? And you'll be shocked to hear that all my life I have not believed in money. I always thought that money just come if you just believe they'll come. And I never really bothered much to make them.

Robin
Talking about money, Narcis, what do you think? Is this wealth tax coming there? Do you think we will have a, like a left government? Do you think Lars Løkke is pulling something out to to get a central government.

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Narcis
I think Lars Løkke wants more than he can bite right now, and by doing that, he risks us having re-elections, which is not gonna be good for us. DF and DD are waiting there in the shadows, ready to attack. So I don't know. Today Mette came out and said, you know what, Lars, you keep saying everywhere that it can take months before we see a government. I'm ready to make government now. Where are you? Because you're out there giving out free, I don't know, hot dogs and t-shirts and bags to people on the street instead of being out here negotiating. Because for the whole week he was not there. He decided to disappear. Unfortunately, he wants really badly to have this center government with conservatives and vans, but already conservatives have said, if it's not Trolls, the one who is the prime minister for us is not interesting. And I understand why, because for the conservatives, being government with SF and the Social Democrats and Moderaterne and Radikale, which will— they have to make a lot of compromises, and those compromises could really ruin them next elections. That's what also Alex Vanopslagh came and said, guys, don't be stupid. If you go into a government with the red parties, there's no blue bloc in 4 years from now. There is— it's gone, because already Wennstrom got seriously weakened because they were in the center government. Now you add Radikale, conservative as well. Where will the blue votes go besides Liberal Alliance? They will probably go to our dear friends who love us so much. Air quotes.

Robin
It will go even more right. Yeah, I see. So the most probable one that would be Moderaterne and then on both sides, then we have Social Democrats, Radikale. And then on the, and then conservatives and Venstre, but SF should be part of that. They, yeah. Okay. But that will be a very hard one to crack.

Narcis
There's no way to form the government without them. It's not, so they, they need SF as well. That's why, but SF, it's, it's fine. The only problem is the conservatives really don't want another 4 years with Mette. Sloki, what he hopes is that by pushing them, he plays, he basically plays poker right now. The mayors, the conservative mayors are putting a lot of pressure on the leaders of the party. Accept, join the government, join the government. They even went publicly against the line of the party saying, you know what, we want you to join the government. And the same thing with Venstre. The mayors are like, you know what, we want you to be in power because we need to have access to power. So we couldn't care less about your 4 years from now. We are governing now. Let's be governing now. So the pressure is real. Lars Løkke is aware of that. So he's using that in his favor because he knows one thing, and I think that's what he's betting on. He hopes that the only way to bring conservatives and Van Straeten back at the table will be with him as the prime minister.

Robin
I see.

Narcis
And he's going to try and push and pull as much as he can until that happens. And you'll be so shocked. Damn, this is like in the movies, you know, Bourne. That happened there. That literally happened in the series. If you have not seen the series, you must see it. You'll be shocked how much that reflects reality in Denmark today.

Robin
I hear all around that, that it's just like they have been predicting the future all over.

Narcis
Yeah, it's crazy. So my bet right now is if Mette somehow manages to convince Venstre at least to join the government, there's a chance for her to continue. But otherwise, or she has to really give up a lot, like she already said on live an hour ago. She said wealth tax. Yeah, that's not gonna happen. Because if you want to have already Radikale is against, Moderaterne is against, ventre is against, conservative is against, there's not enough support for it. So as you said earlier, what about the wealth tax? It's not gonna happen. Yeah. It was a political game. It was a proposal that we all knew is not gonna happen. Now we know it's not gonna happen. So at least that should let rich people and entrepreneurs feel a bit know that it's not coming yet. Yeah, exactly. Feel a little less stressed about it. But in the end, we will have to see it. It is a political game. And for us as internationals, what's important is that, of course, a center-left government will be fantastic. If you looked at the positions about internationals before the elections, many of the center-left parties are more pro-internationals. That's how it is. So therefore, we do want a center-left government. But if it's going to be a center government that contains radically and Moderatene, that's also good for us. They will be the moderating voice in that center government. So either way, it should be good for us. The only thing that's not good for us is reelection. That's the only thing that will— because it will be hell again, because the rhetoric against internationals, especially now since the gates of ethno-nationalists have been opened, that will go crazy from there on. But I think we can end today's episode maybe with a talk about the Danish traditions, because we talked about what makes one Danish.

Robin
Sure.

Narcis
Did you know about this tradition that at least in Bornholm it still happens. When a young professional, let's say a carpenter, finishes their education, they have to go through this tradition called the Valse, or Navne in Danish, where they have to go for 3 years away from their family with no phone, with no plan, and they just have to travel around the world, around Denmark and Europe, offering their services as they go and acquiring experience and experiences of life. And they're not supposed to come in contact with their family in those 3 years. Actually, it's 1,100 days, so it's 3 years in 1 day. Okay.

Robin
That's quite a long time. It sounds like a real adventure. So they travel around in Europe.

Narcis
So would you do that, Robin? Is that something would you ever try? Because it's a, it's a, from what I see, it's a Northern Europe old tradition. It's actually very old. Is, was that in Belgium as well? It could have been, right?

Robin
Not at all. I was always so jealous of Germans or Danes who are doing a gap year and who are volunteering somewhere. No, it's very much the tradition in Belgium, at least in Flanders, the north of Belgium, that you study and then right after you study, you start working as soon as possible. You find a job, even if you can find a job within your master's studies, that would be even better. So no, there's no, no real time for, or no real tradition of traveling or any of this. I would love for this to have been a tradition. Can I still do it when I'm 33?

Narcis
I don't think it's an age thing. You just have to have this certificate that now you're a master in your field. Okay. So then you have to go and experience life. But I guess, how old are you now, Robin?

Robin
I'm 33, so I would love to do that.

Narcis
Okay. Oh, 33. It's time for you to settle down and build a family.

Robin
I'm not following the Danish traditions, I see.

Narcis
Danish tradition. It's more like Europe tradition. We haven't you heard that we must make more children for the sake of Denmark?

Robin
I see. Yeah.

Narcis
This is an old story from last year, but there was a public call. It was even ads made by the government saying, go travel more, bring back children. No, seriously, because they discovered that Danes make more children abroad. Okay. It's higher the chance of it. So they actually even had a whole campaign where they were subsidizing travel. Just get the hell out. Go bring children. I don't know if you have noticed, but there's like a baby boom around in Denmark since those campaigns.

Robin
I see. Okay.

Narcis
But I'm joking. Of course, you have all the time ahead to make your life. Yeah.

Robin
After my 3 years of traveling around and getting—

Narcis
doing your Vals. The Vals.

Robin
Exactly.

Narcis
It's a funny name, Vals. It's an interesting name for a tradition, but—

Robin
but I've heard you also need to like leave your phone behind. When you do this travel?

Narcis
Yeah, they actually go in the last night, they stay the whole night with their family and friends in a bar, and then they have to take the phone and with a hammer and put it, put a, like a nail through the phone and leave it there. Yeah. So it's, it's a true commitment.

Robin
That becomes a real deal.

Narcis
Yeah. Yeah. It's a true commitment. You're done. Now go experience life. I don't know how will I feel about that, to be honest. Sometimes it must be interesting, right? It must be freeing. Like now there's no plan. There's no, you just get out there, get your backpack and it sounds amazing.

Robin
But how do you do your mid-ID in another country?

Narcis
It's Europe. It's free travel, right? Around.

Robin
I would love to be detached from it. I think that this would be the detox that maybe we all need, like 3 years without, and then seeing what we still need our phones for.

Narcis
Imagine if you had everyone doing this 3 years of being a vagrant, basically you're a vagrant. Going from place to place. And now imagine now hordes of vagrants because of the whole, we are going offline, we're doing the 3 years going offline and we decide to leave our house, leave our work and we just go around. But then who the hell is going to be welcoming you because everyone does it? Or now, how would you feel if someone starts beating at your door and say, uh, I'm doing this 3 years thing. Do you need any help? Uh, can you think for, for food and sleep and a shower?

Robin
I would get a carpenter in my house. Yeah, why not? There's always—

Narcis
it's a skilled person literally coming. Oh my God, I wish I had that luck or unfortunately from Bornholm, I don't feel they'll go this way unless they go maybe towards Norway or something. It could be. Then there's a chance to pass by my house and be like, yeah, so can I do anything? And I have so many projects. You don't leave anywhere for the next 3 weeks. That's where you stay. Food, no problem. Whatever you want. Spanish, Italian, traditional Danish. Yeah, we'll figure out how that works. We'll use YouTube and find out how, what is traditional Danish food. What is traditional Danish food?

Robin
Tartelette, of course. The best Danish dish.

Narcis
Actually, my wife managed to innovate that and make it even more delicious. It's a Polish, um, in fusion, but it tastes a lot better. So, uh, now I'm a big fan of it. I'd actually love to.

Robin
Okay. You'll have to send me the recipe.

Narcis
I mean, let's see, it's the recipe or is the cooking, but yeah, you'll have to pass by. Do you ever come to the north in Aalborg or are you just like a capital person?

Robin
The far north? I became a capital person very recently, but I was a Jylland boy for 4 years. I loved visiting Aalborg. It's very nice up there.

Narcis
You actually came to Aalborg?

Robin
Yes, of course.

Narcis
Oh, okay. So that's good. That's good. Well, with this, we'll wrap things up for today. Thank you everyone for listening. I hope you had fun. This was a more unorthodox style of the usual Last Week Podcast, but I hope you have liked it, and if you don't, just let us know and we'll see what we can do about it. Otherwise, Robin, thank you so much for being part of this show today.

Robin
Thank you so much for having me.

Narcis
We'll see you as a co-host next season.

Robin
Would be lovely, but I'm gonna hit my phone with a hammer right now, so you'll have to, I don't know, write a letter.

Narcis
I'm going to drink milk because that's the way to become Danish.

Robin
Perfect. See you around. Bye.



Head Shot

LWID

Host
Head Shot

Narcis George Matache

Guest
Head Shot

Robin Bonné

Guest